How do you do instant (no ramp) automation changes

[italodisco]

Hi. I've read the manual, searched the board and I'm still needing some help on something that seems so basic to me. Hope I'm doing something wrong.

I want to type in numbers into automation during playback and have the change happen instantly - in other words, have a vertical line from one value to the next.

An example of this is volume automation...I'll play the track playback with a fader at zero and automation record on/blinking. I'll type in e.g. "-6" in the volume fader numerical entry but won't hit return yet. At the desired point, say bar 9.1.000, I'll hit return, and DP will enter a data point of -6 in the volume automation.

However, instead of having the volume go from 0 to -6 right on the downbeat, it's a long ramp from 0 to -6. Then if I do the same thing back to zero, it'll be a ramp up to 0 from -6. This is a drag and I'm sure I'm doing something wrong. I have to go in and edit it all, cloning the previous value and nudging it up as a data point right before each change. I've gone into automation settings and set everything to 1ms. Still no luck.

I'd love to just be able to do automation moves like this as the song plays and have the changes be instant. Any ideas?

[mikehalloran]

Hi. I've read the manual, searched the board and I'm still needing some help on something that seems so basic to me. Hope I'm doing something wrong.

I want to type in numbers into automation during playback and have the change happen instantly - in other words, have a vertical line from one value to the next.
…
I'd love to just be able to do automation moves like this as the song plays and have the changes be instant. Any ideas?

Easy if you don't type in the numbers.

Grab the dots in the automation lane and just do it graphically. You can adjust the levels to the numbers you want. It can be done in real time—and I do but I clean it up afterwards.

[eucho]

Respecting the OP, the idea of drawing in automation changes manually doesn't really work with the live technique that was explained. I'm not aware of a way to make automation changes create two events, one with the new volume setting preceded directly by one with the previous volume setting.

I would suggest after recording all the changes:
opening the sequence editor then opening up the volume lane for the track with the new automation
selecting all new volume moves
option copy drag all the new automation dots one click to create duplicate events just slightly before the new volume move opening up the event list and then manually typing in the previous value for every other event

It's kind of a PITA, but I'm not sure if there's a setting that I'm missing that would achieve what the OP is talking about.

[mikehalloran]

the idea of drawing in automation changes manually doesn't really work with the live technique that was explained. I'm not aware of a way to make automation changes create two events, one with the new volume setting preceded directly by one with the previous volume setting.

Quite easy. I suppose I could do a video.

I'm not sure if there's a setting that I'm missing that would achieve what the OP is talking about.

Me neither. What I described can be done in real time, part of the OP request. It's a bit sloppy—can't be avoided—but very easy to clean up before the second pass—and correct before the third if the desired effect doesn't match the numbers.

[italodisco]

@mike always helpful to see a video to illustrate the technique you describe.

However I'm trying to do this in real time like "dub mixing" - it would be great to be able to do this sans ramps. I don't quite get why they have Automation Settings that don't include something like this...like "Hold Previous Value Until Change." I have a fuzzy memory of it working like this once but no longer...perhaps I'm thinking of another DAW I've used.

[cuttime]

Just spitballing: Would converting a sustain pedal CC 64 to CC 7 (via Reassign Continuous Data) accomplish what you want? We are talking MIDI here?

[italodisco]

Thanks but I don't think I understand what would qualify a sustain pedal in particular - isn't it a binary? What if more than on value is needed?

Oh, you mean "sustaining" a controller? Interesting but I'm not sure how to make that work. And, honestly, it seems batshit to have to do that to accomplish what I want (I don't mean your idea is batshit, it's kind of cool - I just commenting on the fact that we have to consider such shenanigans instead of DP just having an automation mode that allows it).

I expect some cleaning up after. The reason I type in the box and hit return is just because I can enter exact values instead of moving a controller (knob, dial, foot pedal, slider, whatever) and then having a load of CC or automation information that I just have to prune. Also, the way DP works now, having minimal controller 7 changes means I can just select those few dots and quantize them.

[rickorick]

Here is what I do. Make a selection, go to the tool palette click on the icon at the right end I think it’s the trim tool then I click on the tool to the right of the scissors, go to the Sequence Editor to the track I am working on now I can click in highlight section and drag, one will get a line that will go up and down between the selections and I get instant change.

[pencilina]

Here is what I do. Make a selection, go to the tool palette click on the icon at the right end I think it’s the trim tool then I click on the tool to the right of the scissors, go to the Sequence Editor to the track I am working on now I can click in highlight section and drag, one will get a line that will go up and down between the selections and I get instant change.

The problem is doing it in real time and I think the process is a cool idea. DP's automation can only understand the last value and ramps to the next value. When you touch a fader and move it (in write mode) it records the current position/value then the move. When a number is typed into the fader value it only knows that as the requested value (with no current position) and makes a ramp from whatever the last value was or inserts a new value if there's no automation. I don't think there's a way to do what you want without DP having some kind of new conditional code (ie if the transport is moving and track automation is in record then insert the current value and then insert the entered value on the next sample), maybe muting and unmuting a trim plugin could be a work around. Or the worst workaround would be creating a new bus for each time you hit enter. Too bad you cant "flam" a fader touch then enter but the touch will override the value.

[italodisco]

Thanks for the replies and interesting ideas.

I don't understand the code behind DP, so you may be right about specifying conditions that the other automation write modes don't satisfy. That said, I don't know why it wouldn't have a position - that is, I'm hitting enter and that value is going in at the correct position in the timeline. So really what needs to happen is for the last position to be held until a new data point is inserted. Frankly, I don't understand why the Automation Settings ramp times can't solve this...that seems like what changing ramp times to 1 (or 0, if allowed) would/should do.

I'm not at the studio to experiment, and I forgot what automation write mode does it, maybe "Touch" - anyway, it kind of does the inverse of this: when you let go of a controller, it snaps back to the automation value it was at beforehand (even if there is no data point telling it what value to go to, it inserts one, unless I'm remembering this wrong). I feel like it's a sort of cousin to what I want to do.

It just doesn't seem that hard to do but I guess it is. Or I use DP in ways that no one else does? Or Mike can tell me there are better ways to not accomplish what I'm trying to do again and then drop off the thread A nice aspect about my desired method is you can "prime" the fader with a value and then pull the trigger right on (e.g.) the downbeat or whatever by hitting return/enter. More like actual mixing than mousing in dots while the music plays back, which I'm guessing is the "realtime" Mike referred to above.

[pencilina]

I agree, common sense says DP should behave the way you expect. Touch does the inverse because by touching the fader you're constantly inserting new values. Entering a single value on the fly is like putting a new dot in the automation line. DP assumes you want a ramp from whatever was written last. I don't understand the way DP is coded, just the way it behaves.
BUT!!!..... I was just playing around and found your work around. Instead of entering the value at the bottom of the fader just click on the fader's scale or slot (where the numbers are) with automation in latch mode and I think it does exactly what you want. If you have a channel strip on the side of your main window that should give you more screen real estate to be precise. I had no idea this was possible and will add it to my own bag of tricks.

[italodisco]

I abandoned doing that many years ago because it was imprecise with non-scalable faders, but you've got me psyched to try this again! Thank you so much. That was a blind spot for me and can't wait to try it when I'm back to work next week.

[Jim]

The easiest way to do this may be to open the Audio Track Event List. Add an Audio Volume event where you want the change to occur. Set it to your desired initial value. Add another Audio Volume Event. Edit it's Start Time by adding one tic. Change the value to your desired new setting.

Obviously, you can't do this in real time.

[HCMarkus]

just click on the fader's scale or slot (where the numbers are) with automation in latch mode and I think it does exactly what you want. If you have a channel strip on the side of your main window that should give you more screen real estate to be precise.

Noice!

[bayswater]

Makes a fast ramp but not a vertical ramp. (Entering a value doesn't work if the transport is running -- a ramp is produced back to an earlier spot, but clicking the fader does) But it sounds fine. Why a completely vertical ramp anyway? Doesn't that create clicks and pops?