Red Lines --how to get rid of them

fbkaiser · Post by **fbkaiser** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:46 am

Spikey Horse,

I fully share your attitude toward pirates.

The reference to p598 does indeed talk about red lines. However, the vague illustrations and the unacceptable solutuions (time-strech the audio!!??) offered on that page are not at all the simple solutions offered in responses I got.

The fact is, I thought that an inadequate manual and an unresponsive tech support were a couple of reasons why this forum exists.

fbkaiser

Kind Of Loud · Post by **Kind Of Loud** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:51 am

Now, now...be nice. Looks like he was able to figure out what the "Play" button does without any help...

blue · Post by **blue** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:03 am

it seems our cynicism is getting the best of us. nowhere on this site does it say you have to prove you bought the software before you can ask questions. if that needs to change, then so be it. until then, getting on people we are not sure about is the same as calling them guilty before proven innocent. and asking questions we think they should have figured out themselves by reading the manual is not a fair indicator of piracy.

that is, is they have the manual.

Spikey Horse · Post by **Spikey Horse** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:37 am

I wasn't being cynical - just communicative. All I was saying was if you want a better response to your problem (1) post as much background info as you can and (2) try and make it obvious you are not using a pirated copy of DP, preferably so people don't even feel the need to ask.

It becomes a tedious drag if (1) the poster (especially if new to forum) only ever makes vague references to the manual and is (or acts) affrronted or just ignores it when prompted to just do a little bit of quoting here and there to chill everyone out. (2) when everyone start second guessing the poster and playing games or else taking an OTT political or ethical 'stance' on the 'issue' thus turning it all into a debate.

I can't see why it needs to be a problem - you don't need a rigid inflexable system here - as long as there is a bit of two way communication.

innit?!

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:08 am

Spikey Horse wrote:It becomes a tedious drag if (1) the poster ... only ever makes vague references to the manual and ... (2) when everyone start second guessing the poster and playing games or else taking an OTT political or ethical 'stance' on the 'issue' thus turning it all into a debate.

I can't see why it needs to be a problem - you don't need a rigid inflexable system here - as long as there is a bit of two way communication.

innit?!

As an aside, it is also tedious when those posting (and I am NOT referring to you, Spikey, or you Blue) have nothing positive to contribute to the forum and have nothing positive to say (EVER) about DP. Do your own search of the contributors to this thread (if you wish) and draw your own conclusions.

If someone hates DP and can only complain about MOTU tech support, program features and their inability to understand the program or manual, I really don't understand why they even bother to use DP, legal copy or not. Along these lines, the "regulars" will recognize these names and probably ignore future requests for help. Fool me once, fool me twice syndrome.

IMO, this no longer has anything to do with who has the manual. It has everything to do with community, cooperation and moving forward in a positive way. In helping people here, one can learn a lot of the many complex features DP has to offer and, at times, how to work more efficiently. But I really feel you should give something back when you are helped (not to mention a buck for running this thing to Jim every year - at least!)

blue · Post by **blue** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:08 am

speaking in general terms, i'm just saying i think we should cut some of the new users of this board some slack. unless they've been lurking around, they probably don't know about the evolving policy of some users of asking for manual pages to prove legit ownership.

most of the time these piracy threads start, it seems like people (i'm not saying you, spikey horse) suspect someone is a pirate and then start lobbing the manual accusations. instead of just plain asking, "do you have a manual? if so, prove it."

if new users aren't willing to prove it, then i'd say you have a pretty good case against them. but give them the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:28 am

blue wrote:it seems our cynicism is getting the best of us. nowhere on this site does it say you have to prove you bought the software before you can ask questions. if that needs to change, then so be it. until then, getting on people we are not sure about is the same as calling them guilty before proven innocent. and asking questions we think they should have figured out themselves by reading the manual is not a fair indicator of piracy.

that is, is they have the manual.

Read my post about Zero Tolerance for software piracy. It is among the "stickied" topics at the top of the Digital Performer forum. As moderator I reserve the right to boot an individual off the board if I am *personally* convinced that it is *likely* that they are using an illegal copy of Digital Performer. I may ask to verify that they indeed own a manual by asking a question that would prove they have a manual. Ownership of the manual is pretty much the best proof that they have a legal copy.

I encourage people on this board to refuse to answer questions if they suspect someone of having a pirated copy of DP. And as I have said, I have no problems booting someone who is using a pirate copy. I did so previously when someone basically outright admitted it on this board. I think it's hardly fair to those of us who did the right thing and paid our way, to help people we are in effect subsidizing, since it's OUR money that has kept MOTU in business to make software that others then steal.

blue · Post by **blue** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:03 pm

james, i agree and always have. i paid for my copy and i think everyone else should too. and, as a part time software developer, i understand just how flimsy profit margins for software can be without piracy let alone with it.

the problem i have is with people assuming someone didn't buy dp due to the nature of their questions. i've seen people get ripped here before they even had a chance to prove they owned the software. that's not cool.

if there is any doubt as to someone's legitimate ownership, shouldn't that person just be asked point blank to prove they own a manual by citing a bit of text from a page or something? then we could avoid the guessing and name calling.