I think the audio sounds different

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:19 am

Gravity Jim wrote:I'm curious as to what video card to have in your quad core. Some forum members reporting laggy UI are zeroing in on the GPU as the culprit.

Jim, here's my GPU:
ATI Radeon HD 5770, 1024 MB graphics

Shooshie

sampolfonz · Post by **sampolfonz** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:27 am

Here are the specs from System info:

NVIDIA GeForce GT 120:

Chipset Model: NVIDIA GeForce GT 120
Type: GPU
Bus: PCIe
Slot: Slot-1
PCIe Lane Width: x16
VRAM (Total): 512 MB
Vendor: NVIDIA (0x10de)
Device ID: 0x0640
Revision ID: 0x00a1
ROM Revision: 3386
Displays:
SyncMaster:
Resolution: 1680 x 1050 @ 60 Hz
Pixel Depth: 32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)
Display Serial Number: HVYLB00457
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Rotation: Supported
VX2739wm:
Resolution: 1920 x 1080 @ 60 Hz
Pixel Depth: 32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)
Display Serial Number: RKD102102424
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Rotation: Supported

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:31 am

I've got the same display serial numbers!

j/k...

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:18 am

sampolfonz wrote:Restart Mac Pro by holding down the 6 and 4 (they tell me this re-starts in 64 bit).

It does, but only for that restart. To start up in 64 bit by default use the terminal command shown here. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3773?view ... cale=en_US

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:14 am

sampolfonz wrote:Restart Mac Pro by holding down the 6 and 4 (they tell me this re-starts in 64 bit).

Do you always boot into 64-bit kernel. It's not necessary to run DP in 64-bit mode. Try booting in 32 bit and then running DP. Are the MOTU audio drivers 64-bit? I'm assuming they must be if they work in 64-bit boot.

dewdman42 · Post by **dewdman42** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:45 pm

I just want to make a few small points. For one thing, the assertion that dp ever imparted an analog tape type of fatness to recorded tracks is simply not probable. First if they were ever doing something like that many people would have been complaining a long time ago that DP wasn't clear enough or accurate enough. People would rather use plugins for that if they so desire. If MOTU was doing something like that on purpose they most certainly would have been marketing it as a feature. It's unlikely to be an accident,it's not hard to record the tracks exactly as they come in from the sound card, this is digital data, not lossy analog signal.

Likewise it's unlikely that the interactions with plugs would be any different with the same settings, it's digital data.

There are different summing algorithms that can be used when mixing tracks into stereo, which could certainly be different; some DAW's have allowed users to choose between several summing algorithms. These algorithms would show little or no difference on a mono track, but mix 3+ tracks down to mono or stereo and they might. But I doubt this would come across as "fatter" vs more "sterile". It's remotely possible some new changed summing algorithm could mix things down somewhere along the line that introduces some distortion, though highly unlikely that motu has done that, and this would have no relation to single tracks feeding the inputs of a plugin.

IF there is a change of result, I'm much more suspicious of 64 bit handling possibly causing some kind of math error, as a bug, then of any intentional change to summing engines or digital data path.

That is assuming there actually is a real change, we are all susceptible to thinking we r hearing things that we really aren't, based on our perceptions. The op is obviously unhappy with the DP8 upgrade for a number of reasons, it would be easy for perception to "hear" things that aren't there. But I can't say with certainty that is the case here, there are a lot of new changes related to 64bit handling in this release.

I have been involved as a dev on software projects being upgraded to 64bit compilation, and it is not entirely easy to do, there are many opportunities for little bugs to pass the compile and show up later down the pipeline as truncated or misaligned data. It's also possible for the plugins to have these kinds of bugs.

So I guess what I am trying to say is everyone take a deep breathe. I hear a lot of false and half true notions on this thread from all sides, including the OP but not only him. It's entirely possible he is hearing differences, just not for the reasons he originally laid out. It's also possible that he is not hearing differences. In order to take the claim more seriously we would need to see some kind of evidence which shows output data to be different between the two cases. Do a null test with the actual mix down on the two systems and see if different. If so then we would need to start removing things from the mix and null test repeatedly until we can isolate what is causing the different result.

stainless · Post by **stainless** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:07 pm

I have the same card as Swooshie

I can't detect any difference. I am running in 32 bit mode as I've not yet tried the Bridges yet (and I'm content to wait for UAD to get the upgrade )

I can also positively/absolutely/without reservation attest to what happens when one violates the "the other software ...". I was much more tempered after I re-regesitered!

Now, enough time has occurred between DP and that.... (who's name we shall not speak) and I wouldn't even consider going back. If someone offered a new version with touch screen capability... well I'd probably look at that (MOTU... that was a hint

)

So if someone thinks it's sounds different... maybe it does.... the null test looks pretty damn convincing to me, and it's sounds just as good to me. And as to the "tape saturation" sound, if you like that, might I recommend the UAD Ampex or Studer plugs... IMHO, very convincing

twistedtom · Post by **twistedtom** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:35 pm

dewdman good post and right on.

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:59 am

I repeated the null test I posted earlier by duplicating a simple project with a few tracks and plugins, and mixing in DP 7 - 32 and DP 8 - 64. Same result.

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:01 am

Look, I'm as sensitive as any of you about sound and have as many years with analog still owning ATRs, 24 tracks etc. and I hear very little difference if at all. But, I will admit there is a slowdown in 10.8 and one that is clearly there. Just looking at the performance meter it is noticeable but only slightly. If your hearing sound differences it could be that. Increase buffers and see what happens. I think Apple is running 8 in side a safety shield, forget what they call it for crashes. I saw a placard once on a crash so I know this is true.

When they remove that in a few months I think things will improve.

kwiz · Post by **kwiz** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:22 am

twistedtom wrote:dewdman good post and right on.

Ditto!

Great to see the all knowing and wise Timeline chime in on this one as well.

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:02 am

sampolfonz wrote:Here are the specs from System info:

NVIDIA GeForce GT 120:

Chipset Model: NVIDIA GeForce GT 120
Type: GPU
Bus: PCIe
Slot: Slot-1
PCIe Lane Width: x16
VRAM (Total): 512 MB
Vendor: NVIDIA (0x10de)
Device ID: 0x0640
Revision ID: 0x00a1
ROM Revision: 3386
Displays:
SyncMaster:
Resolution: 1680 x 1050 @ 60 Hz
Pixel Depth: 32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)
Display Serial Number: HVYLB00457
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Rotation: Supported
VX2739wm:
Resolution: 1920 x 1080 @ 60 Hz
Pixel Depth: 32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)
Display Serial Number: RKD102102424
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Rotation: Supported

By "system specs", we meant the following:

Year and model of Mac (i-Mac, Mac Pro, MacBook, MacBook Pro, etc.)
Processor type and CPU speed (as in "Xeon 2.8 Ghz")
Number of cores (2, 4, 8, 12, etc.)
OSX version (10.6.8, 10.7.5, 10.8, etc.)
Audio interface (MOTU, Apogee, RME, etc.)

sampolfonz · Post by **sampolfonz** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:08 am

David,

Look back a few posts and you will see my system specs of my system. I was answering a question about my video card specifically in that post.

S

DPINCGK · Post by **DPINCGK** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:53 am

When it comes to an evaluation of sound quality, I'm personally very appreciative to hear opinions, but unfortunalely I have also grown extremely skeptical when I hear claims about any one or the other thing sounding "warmer" or "better", etc. Especially with respect to software.

The ear is just too easy to fool...

A couple years back I saw a presentation on comparative listening, I learned a lot and found this guy's recommendations to help a lot...

http://www.undertoneaudio.com/comp_listening.html

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:18 am

sudo systemsetup -setkernelbootarchitecture x86_64

When I try the Terminal command it asks for a password. I have no password. Tried return but did not work. ???

MOTUnation.com

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