Could I be unlucky and have 2 faulty 424 cards?

[lorngus]

Ok. My apologies. I hadn't noticed you were on a PC. There's the problem right there...

I often come accross the mac v pc debate on the cubase forums...

you may be interested in this thread...

EXACTLY the same problem as myself, even same digital mixer and DAW... only difference... he has a mac

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... =2&t=48232" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href)
so don't you agree this rules out the 'pc as is the problem' stance?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

My comment was somewhat tongue in cheek... somewhat.

I don't know why your drivers are sucking and I don't doubt that they are. I have an M-Audio FW audio interface and believe me, that driver truly does suck. I feel your pain, truly.

Yet, many have the same drivers and devices working, which may indicate a conflict with some other driver or component in your particular system. These can be beasts to troubleshoot. The new Mac OS Lion makes a Mac more like a PC in that it defaults to hide (protect?) system components in invisible folders and files, so my Mac comment has a shelf life.

MOTU really is who you should be talking to. Tech links generally do suck and can go unanswered for months. That needs to either be fixed or the system should be scrapped. That is clearly not helping fix your problem and being in the UK makes calling difficult.

I do hope you can resolve your issues. As you can see, a sober and thoughtful post will get more helpful responses.

If you were on a Mac I would suggest installing a new, clean system on a clean or wiped drive. Then adding just the MOTU drivers to see if the problem resolves. It's not unusual for me to have multiple boot drives in the ready to plunk into my Mac. Every few years I do a clean install of the current OS and all software from the original discs or DMG files. It's a lot of work, but it has resolved seemingly impossible problems - with the exception of the M-Audio drivers. Did I mention that they really do suck?

[lorngus]

Yet, many have the same drivers and devices working, which may indicate a conflict with some other driver or component in your particular system.

the problem is that If I hook up only 'one' unit .. it works work perfectly.. its when I add the second units problems surface!

which ever unit is NOT directly connected to BNC (i.e clocking from the 424 card) clicks and pops... I can swap the bnc cable to the other 2408.. set that to wordclock and suddenly.. the first unit now pops and clicks!

the main drawback I have on this forum is that nobody seems to have a similar setup to me (i.e. 2 x 2408 M3's and a 424 card)... I just find it strange that the only person on here I 'have' found who has 2 x 2408's... also has a mackie dxb and cubase 6.. (but a mac instead of a pc) ... and is having exactly the same problems... and I mean.. exactly the same!!! do 'you' not find that odd!

as for a conflict with my system.. I don't think that is the case.. I have tried 3 different pc's .. all with windows 7 64bit... but different motherboards, cpu's and graphic cards... and all disply the same problem!

currently my main daw pc has been re-formatted (yet again)... latest chipset drivers loaded and the 424 drivers and card... and thats it, nothing else.. no other cards, software or drivers! but still no joy!

Now to add to the confusion.. when I check the properties for each set of audio outputs.. (24 pairs in total) windows says I have only the option of either '16bit 44.1' or '16bit 48' .... no 24 bit or 96k ... (I have also seen this situation in another post from another user somewhere on this forum). again... very odd!

my next step it to get hold of a bnc t-link so I can slave both units to wordclock in the hope that the second unit will lock... as I am sure this is where my problem lies... that second unit is not locking properly via the 424 card.... yeap, it's a long shot... but I am rapidly running out of things to try!

and I can forget about setting the 424 card to internal and my mackie to slave... the digital noise is 10 times worse on all 48 channels!

p.s... there is nothing wrong with my mackie clock cards (apogee)... I have three (bought as spares for the future use because the desk is now discontimued) and they all work fine!

[DoctorOrbis]

which ever unit is NOT directly connected to BNC (i.e clocking from the 424 card) clicks and pops... I can swap the bnc cable to the other 2408.. set that to wordclock and suddenly.. the first unit now pops and clicks!

I ran into something similar syncing three units via word clock. A BNC terminator at the end of the cable fixed it. In your case, you would connect a BNC-T to both word clock inputs, and attach an appropriate terminator to the open end on the last device. Without the terminator, standing waves in the cables can cause some units to fail to lock onto the clock signal. I don't remember off the top of my head whether you need a 50-ohm or 75-ohm terminator, but a google search should clear that up.

-O-

[Fishmed]

One thing I did notice... you said you had all your gear connected to your 2408 via bnc.. does that include all the audiowire connected to you 424 card?

You would think they would all work fine from the PCIe-424 card Audiowire. Thinking back when I first got my second MOTU unit, I might have had the same issue you had. It seems like overkill, connecting the BNC cables always worked; plus, I am pretty sure the BNC cables would be needed if I used something other than MOTU for the clock source.

Try hooking up your system this way and see if it works.

[lorngus]

I ran into something similar syncing three units via word clock. A BNC terminator at the end of the cable fixed it. In your case, you would connect a BNC-T to both word clock inputs, and attach an appropriate terminator to the open end on the last device. Without the terminator, standing waves in the cables can cause some units to fail to lock onto the clock signal. I don't remember off the top of my head whether you need a 50-ohm or 75-ohm terminator, but a google search should clear that up.

many thanks for you reply! I'm hoping to try this tomorrow! I let you know!
but I don't wanna get too excited yet ... lol but my fingers are crossed!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Please let us know how it goes. There's nothing in the manual about terminating multiple units? This used to be a hit or miss thing with those old SCSI drives.

[lorngus]

You would think they would all work fine from the PCIe-424 card Audiowire. Thinking back when I first got my second MOTU unit, I might have had the same issue you had. It seems like overkill, connecting the BNC cables always worked; plus, I am pretty sure the BNC cables would be needed if I used something other than MOTU for the clock source.

Try hooking up your system this way and see if it works.

see above.. thank you very much for taking the time to reply. lets see if this does the trick!

[lorngus]

Please let us know how it goes. There's nothing in the manual about terminating multiple units? This used to be a hit or miss thing with those old SCSI drives.

will do, thanks! like you said.. the manual us very clear about how to set up wordclock connections! but this is something that has been buzzing around in my head. and also my friend from the BBC (remember him ) did say that he could not understand why the second units was not supposed connected to a BNC .... anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself a little... lets see what tomorrow brings.. assuming the parts arrive!

[FutureLegends]

This is a total crapshot (and I believe connecting the wordclock BNC to all interfaces is the way to go) but anyway:
As you yourself noted, the audiowire connections are proprietary format, but also, the cables are supposedly a tiny bit different and MOTU recommends using their supplied 'audiowire cables'. So if you are using standard FW cables that might cause problems. Although I think it's unlikely.

[torrentg]

This is a total crapshot (and I believe connecting the wordclock BNC to all interfaces is the way to go) but anyway:
As you yourself noted, the audiowire connections are proprietary format, but also, the cables are supposedly a tiny bit different and MOTU recommends using their supplied 'audiowire cables'. So if you are using standard FW cables that might cause problems. Although I think it's unlikely.

Unlikely, yes.

Must be considered, definitely.

Good call on that one.

[macguy]

I'm surprised with the name "torrentg" you haven't been proclaimed a pirate yet on this forum... Sure it's a matter of time ha ha...

[MIDI Life Crisis]

You just pissin everybody off today. Slow day?

[macguy]

You just pissin everybody off today. Slow day?

I know nothing about "pissin" everybody off but just making OBSERVATIONS and one I've noticed is you have a remark for everything... no big deal you can't have all the fun!

[lorngus]

This is a total crapshot (and I believe connecting the wordclock BNC to all interfaces is the way to go) but anyway:
As you yourself noted, the audiowire connections are proprietary format, but also, the cables are supposedly a tiny bit different and MOTU recommends using their supplied 'audiowire cables'. So if you are using standard FW cables that might cause problems. Although I think it's unlikely.

again, another thing that crossed my mind!

can anyone confirm this they are indeed slightly different from standard FW cables?
I found this on the 'SOUND ON SOULD' review!

"Audiowire is MOTU's proprietary audio protocol, which utilises standard 6-pin Firewire cables and connectors."

here is the link

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct03/articles/motu.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Both of my units were bought used (but still boxed, and mint condition) so I have no way of knowing at this time if the cable in the box was the original. I will need to contact the previous owners to check, but then again I will only have their word on in!

the thing is that the problem switches from one unit to the other depending on which is getting direct wordclock so that seem to rule out the cable unless the sync to not getting back to the 424 card via the FW cable?

Motu do state in their manual that any 'custom' 6 pin - 6 pin FW cable can be used as long as it does not exceed the recomended max length!

this is the cable detail on the motu site...
https://www.motu.com/store/accessories/firewire-cables" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

this is food for thought... I'll look into it if I still get no joy with my bnc cables!

thanks