VE Pro 5 fixes AU MIDI limitations (apparently)

Discussion of Digital Performer use, optimization, tips and techniques on MacOS.

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
User avatar
FMiguelez
Posts: 8266
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Body: Narco-México Soul/Heart: NYC

Re: VE Pro 5 fixes AU MIDI limitations (apparently)

Post by FMiguelez »

AntiPro wrote:Using the Event Input plugin (or VST3/RTAS) you can have up to 32 MIDI input ports per VE Pro instance. The maximum amount can be set in the VE Pro Server Preferences as well as in the VE Pro Server Interface plugin preferences.

Full latency compensation really means full latency compensation, as in all latency is always compensated for and no extra measures are required to synchronize things. VE Pro 4 didn't have latency compensation for plugins running in the instance. Time synchronization in general has also been vastly improved to ensure sample accuracy.
Thank you for joining the forum to answer these questions.

Willkommen!

We don't want to take too much of your valuable time here (we know you are busy designing GREAT products), but I want to encourage you to keep posting as you see fit.

Haben Sie vielen Dank! 8)
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.

---------------------------

"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
User avatar
Frodo
Posts: 15598
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: The Shire

Re: VE Pro 5 fixes AU MIDI limitations (apparently)

Post by Frodo »

williemyers wrote:Frodo, et al.
I think you've touched on this question in the past, but if could ask (just once more)? :oops: :oops:

Bottom line, for a user running DP 7.42 on a single MacPro (see sig.), booting 64 bit and 10.6.8 and/or Lion, is there really any advantage to using VEPro in this setup?

I have no doubt that if I were running two or more networked computers, VEPro would be the way to go, but I've never understood whether or not it would benefit me as a single-comp. user.

thanks and apologies for yet again asking what's probably been asked and answered
It's a good question and the answer is "yes"-- there are advantages on one machine. DP is still 32-bit. Running all of your 64-bit plugins inside VE Pro puts your MacPro and its memory to good use. Once DP itself goes 64-bit, it seems to me that the entire concept of using anything in standalone mode rewired to any DAW host on a single machine will make less sense than it does today.... insofar as memory addressing is concerned.

Even after DP goes 64-bit, using VE Pro *could* have some enduring conveniences on one machine besides the memory access benefit. It's a great submixer for complex combinations of instruments, such as an orchestral setup. One could do that in DP as well and then tuck everything into track folders with the help of a template for ongoing expedience, but VE Pro is a single window with everything all set to go once you've gotten it set up and tweaked. One click on a single plugin insert and there's your entire ensemble.

I think once DP goes 64-bit and the memory limits of 32-bit addressing are a thing of the past, it will largely be a matter of taste and preferred workflow whether to do it all in DP or to "submix" with VE Pro on one machine.
6,1 MacPro, 96GB RAM, macOS Monterey 12.7.6, DP 11.33
User avatar
Alfred Zigoma
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:07 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Russia

Re: VE Pro 5 fixes AU MIDI limitations (apparently)

Post by Alfred Zigoma »

I shall ask here or it is necessary to create new the message?

Help to adjust a sheaf from 2 Mac Pro
Earlier used VE Pro on one computer and there were no questions,
Has now bought one more Mac Pro and it is impossible to work.
Has connected directly a cable two computers. In Network Utility connection 1gb is written that, but there are drops - out of a sound. I know that many here work in such sheaf and I ask to help me in
To adjustment of connection maybe there are any cunnings of adjustment of connection
can to make separate subject matter by principles of work VE Pro,
To not look for in many subject matters
It is necessary to configure
Mac Pro 1,1 ,Mac Pro 5,1 ,Euphonix Mix @ Control
nd at mixdown audiotracks which are sent on slave a computer are absent in render file
MacPro Quad-Core 2.8 GHZ 16GB RAM OSX 10.10, MacBook Pro 13" 2.4GHz 8GB RAM OSX 10.11, Mac Mini MD388 OSX 10.10
DP 8, SSL MADI AlphaLink MX, UA Apollo, SSL Sigma, PMC Tb2, ATC SCM 20, SSL Alpha VHD Pre, Kemper, Powercore x8, UAD Octo, MC Mix(х2), MC Control, Melodyne, Revoice Pro, RX4, Soundtoys, McDSP, Waves, all Slate, VSL VE Pro, SE, Suite, NI Kontakt 5, Halion 5, MachFive 3, BPM, etc...
williemyers
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Louisville, KY

Re: VE Pro 5 fixes AU MIDI limitations (apparently)

Post by williemyers »

studio_651 & Frodo, many thanks for replying.
I actually purchased the Vienna iLok last year, thinking that I would - at some point - want to download the VEPro demo and have a go. Got caught up in other things and never did get the demo, but I've got the key for when I do. There seem to be a few folks around reporting problems with VEPro5, so I think I'll still hold on a bit before trying the demo. I assume it's "time limited", so I don't want to start the clock ticking till they've got a few bugs worked out.
But thanks again, at least I'll know now that there may be benefits for me, when i do give it a try.
DP 9.52(OS 10.13.6), PTools 11.3.3, Sibelius 2021.12,
MacPro 5,1 mid-2010, 2 x 2.93Ghz 12 core, ATI Radeon HD 5870, 64 Gig RAM, 4 x >120G SSDs, 2 x 25" LCDs
couple o' hardware synths, loadza legal libraries
Kurz Midiboard, MOTU MTP AV

https://vimeo.com/71580152

"I always wanted to be a composer - and I am..."
"I never wanted to be a recording engineer - and I'm not..."

~me
yiagoulas
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:47 am
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: VE Pro 5 fixes AU MIDI limitations (apparently)

Post by yiagoulas »

Does anybody else has a problem with this new function in VE PRO? I set it up so I can have more MIDI channels for my VE PRO server but then when I playback some notes -randomly don't play back

thanks
jlaudon
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Hong Kong
Contact:

Re: VE Pro 5 fixes AU MIDI limitations (apparently)

Post by jlaudon »

Ye, I have the same problem. Actually VE Pro 5 has been behaving quite erratically for me, even without using the Event plugin. Probably some bugs.
MacBook Pro 2021 (M1 Ultra) with 64 gigs RAM. DP 11.23
AntiPro
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:39 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: VE Pro 5 fixes AU MIDI limitations (apparently)

Post by AntiPro »

Currently the situation in DP with regards to the Audio/Event Input plugins is as follows:

- In DP's Audio plugins preferences, you have to disable Pre-gen mode for all plugins. Otherwise the Audio/Event Input plugins will not work properly.

- Bouncing (offline rendering) does not work, but Freezing (real-time rendering) does work. It is possible to bounce by first freezing and then bouncing the resulting frozen tracks.

I'm trying my best to get bouncing to work as well for a future update.

The manual will soon be updated with this information as well (as well as information about workarounds in Logic).

IMPORTANT: This only applies to the Audio/Event Input plugins in DP. VE Pro 5 still works just as well as VE Pro 4 for regular operation.

Sorry for the inconvenience.
Karel Bassez
Software Engineer/Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library
jlaudon
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Hong Kong
Contact:

Re: VE Pro 5 fixes AU MIDI limitations (apparently)

Post by jlaudon »

Thanks Karel - it's always great to hear from the developer, very reassuring. I'll try these instructions, as I love using VE Pro.
MacBook Pro 2021 (M1 Ultra) with 64 gigs RAM. DP 11.23
User avatar
ironchef_marc
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact:

Re: VE Pro 5 fixes AU MIDI limitations (apparently)

Post by ironchef_marc »

So Frodo, to overcome 32bit RAM limitation, is the only thing missing is DP 64bit? I mean Kontakt is already supporting 64bit mode so as soon as DP makes the jump that history?

I heard rumors of the 64bit version coming out first quarter 2012, is that substantiated?
New Rig |MAC Studio | OS12.6 | 64GB RAM | Storage | miniStack STX 18TB, (14TB HDD, 4TB SSD) | Crucial X8 4TB SSD |
Softwares | DP 11.22 | VEPRO7 | Audio Interface | M4 |
--
old rig | MAC Pro 2 X 2.26 GHz, 8-Core | 10.11.6 | 32 GB RAM | DP9.52 | 2408mk3 | MTP AV
hrw
Posts: 616
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:41 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: VE Pro 5 fixes AU MIDI limitations (apparently)

Post by hrw »

ironchef_marc wrote:So Frodo, to overcome 32bit RAM limitation, is the only thing missing is DP 64bit? I mean Kontakt is already supporting 64bit mode so as soon as DP makes the jump that history?

I heard rumors of the 64bit version coming out first quarter 2012, is that substantiated?
We hope so. No one is ever really sure but there probably will be some sort of announcement at the 2012 winter NAMM show.
Computer/s: OSX 10.8.3

2 x 2.66 GHz Mac Pro Quad-Core Intel Xeon w/ 16GB RAM,

DAW:DP8.05
Hardware: Apogee Duet
VI's/Plug-ins:
Kontakt 5.1, EW PLAY Libraries and a
million others.
Marc7777
Posts: 238
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:34 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: VE Pro 5 fixes AU MIDI limitations (apparently)

Post by Marc7777 »

64 Bit DP means you'd need 64 bit plugins right?

In that case, it doesn't help much since most plugs are still 32... :(

one day all this stuff will all be on the same page ha.

~M
DP 8.04 64bit, VEP 5 (Latest), 1 Dual Quad 2.26 Mac Pro 2009 w/ 10.8 as DP DAW. 1 Dual Quad 2.26 Mac Pro 2009 w/ 10.6 as VEP Sample Machine. PCIe 424 - 4 2408's. Console - Yamaha 02R 96v2. AD/DA - Apogee Symphony IO. Waves, Sonnox, MOTU Plugins.
User avatar
Frodo
Posts: 15598
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: The Shire

Re: VE Pro 5 fixes AU MIDI limitations (apparently)

Post by Frodo »

Marc makes an interesting point, but I think there are some other considerations (to consider).
Marc7777 wrote:64 Bit DP means you'd need 64 bit plugins right?

In that case, it doesn't help much since most plugs are still 32... :(
To the contrary, since we're still dealing with 32-bit software, something like VEP and Bidule help to overcome the less-than 4GB limitation by cracking open access to more RAM on your machine above and beyond that limitation spec.

You don't *need* 64-bit plugins to run them [at all] with the 64-bit kernel. The idea of having all things "64" is more a matter of getting the most out of your computer's resources and less a matter of basic compatibility.

If all software were 64-bit (OS, DAW, and all plugins) things like VEP and Bidule will become somewhat less of a necessity. Why have more than one host competing for available RAM when one host will do the trick?

Exceptions to that consideration:

~ Pre-mixing large sections of VIs. Where memory access is potentially not a problem, the mixing and setup features of using VEP *on one machine* can still improve workflow and remove a certain amount of clutter from DP. Depending on the size and nature of one's projects in accordance with how capable or well-equipped your Mac is, most users might find it unnecessary to use a "sub host" like VEP or Bidule. I'll gather that DP's V-Racks will look more like what VEP and Bidule were intended to do once it goes 64-bit, except that V-Racks itself remains restricted by DP's 32-bit limitations for all the workflow conveniences it has always offered. Once DP goes "64", look out!

~ Again, managing humongous projects that will still require running a computer network easily and inexpensively will still be a significant consideration where using VEP goes. [I haven't checked the latest developments with Bidule, but I know that VEP only needs a single cable for audio and MIDI via ethernet rather than separate audio/MIDI interface hardware for each computer in the network.] The amount of computers needed within that network will continue to decrease [for the same workload]. What once required 4 machines now only takes 2 machines on this end-- and one of my machines is still a G5!!

~ If VEP has overcome an important AU spec, it will continue to verify its own necessity because the AU spec is unlikely to change any time soon.
Marc7777 wrote: one day all this stuff will all be on the same page ha.

~M
To paraphrase Yoda:

Yeah--- it will be.
It will be.

:wink:
6,1 MacPro, 96GB RAM, macOS Monterey 12.7.6, DP 11.33
Post Reply