ProTools 10 previews new "already DP" features...

[Larry Mal]

Everyone should know that the RAM loading feature is only available in Pro Tools HD, HD Native, or the standalone applications ("10") that have the Toolkit... I forget which Toolkit. I think there's only one now, that $2k monstrosity.

I really don't want to delve into Avid's bizarre marketing plan any further than I have to, but I wanted to let folks know that if you think it's a cool feature- I do- and then think you can upgrade your Pro Tools 9 software to 10 and get it, you can't.

Avid has jumped the tracks with this release. Nobody is happy about it, or at least what it costs anyway. For myself, I thought I would go to Pro Tools 10 when it came out, because I had heard that it would be 64 bit. It isn't.

Then I come to find out that it's a $500 upgrade for me, which I won't pay. There's really nothing there for me except compatibility and the ability to run Pro Tools with the equipment I already have, but I have any number of software titles that will already do that.

For folks that are expected to pay $1k, they are really leery of having to pay another $1k when Pro Tools 11 HD comes out (10 is a transitionary software leading to 64 bit 11). I can't blame them at all- it's priced ridiculously.

Not to mention that there will be inevitable costs moving from RTAS and TDM plug ins to AAX. I think it's too early to panic... but there will likely be some expenditure for some folk, and they ain't happy.

The new processing card, and possible the new HD|Native cards, also don't work the Harpertown processors in Mac (like in my 2008 dual 2.8 GHz Mac Pro). So a lot of folk are also looking at a new Mac, in addition to paying extra for the new cards, although in all fairness, Avid has what seems to be a pretty good trade in policy on the old cards.

Still, all of these factors are seemingly causing a lot of folk to stay where they are or think about leaving Avid and Pro Tools entirely. Personally, I am very happy about that... not that I really want Avid to fail, but I want some room for other software to emerge into a market that Pro Tools has dominated for a long, long time. Frankly, I think they have abused their position in the marketplace, and I am happy to think that folks are having their blinders pulled off.

Just some thoughts.

[Killahurts]

Everyone should know that the RAM loading feature is only available in Pro Tools HD, HD Native, or the standalone applications ("10") that have the Toolkit... I forget which Toolkit. I think there's only one now, that $2k monstrosity.

Yes, that's also the one you have to purchase to work in surround..

Avid has really boxed themselves into a corner, I foresee massive ship-jumping.

Whenever I wonder what I might be "missing" with Protools, I just turn on the MOTools theme and get on with my work!

[James Steele]

Frankly, I think they have abused their position in the marketplace, and I am happy to think that folks are having their blinders pulled off.

TRUTH.

This is why for a long time back when Avid was Digi, there was bad blood towards MOTU and why I have speculated that they weren't altogether eager to help fix issues with Digital Performer on TDM. MOTU blindsided Digidesign and the industry years ago with the 2408. Up till that time Digidesign had been charging a premium and crippling hardware capabilities to upcharge for "unlocking" them.

Seems like the new Avid is much like the old Digidesign and reminds me why I've avoided getting locked into them. One thing they have been good at is beating their message into the consciousness of some clients who believe if you're not using Pro Tools, your studio is somehow inferior.

[Shooshie]

Everyone should know that the RAM loading feature is only available in Pro Tools HD, HD Native, or the standalone applications ("10") that have the Toolkit... I forget which Toolkit. I think there's only one now, that $2k monstrosity.

I really don't want to delve into Avid's bizarre marketing plan any further than I have to, but I wanted to let folks know that if you think it's a cool feature- I do- and then think you can upgrade your Pro Tools 9 software to 10 and get it, you can't.

Avid has jumped the tracks with this release. Nobody is happy about it, or at least what it costs anyway. For myself, I thought I would go to Pro Tools 10 when it came out, because I had heard that it would be 64 bit. It isn't.

Then I come to find out that it's a $500 upgrade for me, which I won't pay. There's really nothing there for me except compatibility and the ability to run Pro Tools with the equipment I already have, but I have any number of software titles that will already do that.

For folks that are expected to pay $1k, they are really leery of having to pay another $1k when Pro Tools 11 HD comes out (10 is a transitionary software leading to 64 bit 11). I can't blame them at all- it's priced ridiculously.

Not to mention that there will be inevitable costs moving from RTAS and TDM plug ins to AAX. I think it's too early to panic... but there will likely be some expenditure for some folk, and they ain't happy.

The new processing card, and possible the new HD|Native cards, also don't work the Harpertown processors in Mac (like in my 2008 dual 2.8 GHz Mac Pro). So a lot of folk are also looking at a new Mac, in addition to paying extra for the new cards, although in all fairness, Avid has what seems to be a pretty good trade in policy on the old cards.

Still, all of these factors are seemingly causing a lot of folk to stay where they are or think about leaving Avid and Pro Tools entirely. Personally, I am very happy about that... not that I really want Avid to fail, but I want some room for other software to emerge into a market that Pro Tools has dominated for a long, long time. Frankly, I think they have abused their position in the marketplace, and I am happy to think that folks are having their blinders pulled off.

Just some thoughts.

Hear! Hear! This bears repeating. (so I quoted it. If you didn't get it the first time, read it!) I've added some bold-face type for emphasis. I hope Larry doesn't mind. I think what Avid has created here is the perfect storm. Coming up the East Coast we have this frontal system where Avid has blown a chill across their already wavering product line by establishing several new massive charges and forcing hardware, software, plugin, and peripheral upgrades. Coming up the West Coast, blindsiding this East Coast front, we have a massive high-pressure system blowing across the world, where apps are selling for $00.99 that do more than most Pro Tools plugins, if not PT itself, and people are getting quite comfortable in the sunny, balmy weather of this system. Suddenly everyone is noticing: "wow, there are a lot of talented programmers out there, and some amazing software, and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg." And hey… guess what: when 10 million people buy your app for 99 cents, you're a still a millionaire, and they'll probably buy the upgrade for another 99 cents.

So, considering these two frontal systems that are just now starting to collide, I'd expect to see a lot of formerly brainwashed individuals reassessing the thinness of their wallets and trying out something new. I can tell you this; I love DP -- it changed my life 20-odd years ago, and gave me a career I couldn't have imagined so I'm quite loyal to it, but if MOTU did to us what AVID just did to their user base, I'd freakin' learn to do it in Logic or Cubase, or Record, or Reaper, or just go back to 2" tape. (or stop upgrading, or retire forever -- hey, that's sounding pretty good!)

Shooshie

[Larry Mal]

Yeah, their policy of selling crippleware has already cost them the prosumer market, as far as I can tell. It doesn't take much research to find that Pro Tools is the worst deal around as far as any native based DAW, the old LE line and M-Powered were just plainly inferior to DP, Logic or any other. Sure, there were people who were locking into their 003s and would tell me, "I never need any more tracks than what Digi has allotted!", but that was just sad reasoning. Over the years, the other DAWs eroded much of a very lucrative market away from Tools.

This all seemed to change with Pro Tools 9. I like the software, I always have, though I don't prefer it in any real way to Logic or DP. It's good, though. And it seemed as if Avid was listening to their customers, and releasing a competitive product that worked in the way that customers wanted. I personally was going to buy version 9, I like to keep a copy of Pro Tools around. But I want it to be standalone, and all of a sudden it could be.

But then I heard of version 10, and decided to wait for it. And when it came out, it was a radical departure from the marketing strategy that earned Avid so much good will with version 9. There was the horrible upgrade fee. The dead end hardware and software path. The confusing price point that required much research into finding out what version of Pro Tools will actually do what you need compared to other DAWs. The pointless new plug in format that is going to create much confusion and likely add to the expense of the software with no benefits (and this is true- I've seen plug in makers state that there is no sonic difference).

And add to the fact that this is still crippleware unless one purchases a hideously expensive "Toolkit" to unlock basic functionality- or, in the case of the RAM caching, a genuinely good idea that I hope other software makers copy. And I think they will, and I think it won't cost $2k extra. And this is again why Pro Tools is not an innovator, and why their market is eroding in the prosumer and now the professional market (or it will be soon, is my prediction).

And that's just the prosumer market. I never thought I would see the professional market so up in arms against Avid. What a major misstep.

Same old Avid. The good thing is, when a behemoth stumbles in a marketplace, there is usually a vacuum that develops in which competition can fill. That's what I hope happens here... I hope that very soon, one won't have to keep a copy of Tools around simply because that's what everyone has. I feel safe saying that here because I know everyone agrees with me in that.

[mhschmieder]

Semi-related -- although more focused on the hardware end of PT than the software end -- there's an interesting interview in the July 2011 edition of SOS that I read the other night in relation to Black Lion Audio's new A/D converters, that leads me to think the trend might be away from PT hardware if nothing else. But I've never used PT hardware so don't know if the criticisms also apply to most if not all other digital hardware.

To sum it up, the well-known engineer in the interview switched to Black Lion Audio's mods because he felt that the non-modded versions tend to build up a muddy mid-range and also make all modern recordings sound the same (and bad at that).

I was kind of shocked to read that, as I thought the main reason people had been giving for years about why PT was "superior" was the hardware (i.e. DSP vs. native) as opposed to the DAW workflow and software per se.

So I am confused about their current strategy, but perhaps it reflects on these criticisms, if they are simultaneously opening up the hardware flexibility while locking down the software compatibility (e.g. AAX).

[FMiguelez]

Avid has really boxed themselves into a corner, I foresee massive ship-jumping.

MOTU will welcome them all with open arms

[MIDI Life Crisis]

There is still a chance that PT will implement DP mode and save their app.

[cowtothesky]

Pro Tools is like the IBM and Digital Performer is like the Macintosh, but Pro Tools steals like Microsoft.

[Radiogal]

Must have been like this:

Insight video from the AVID Headquarters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHAb85Rp ... e=youtu.be

[Gravity Jim]

You know, this reminds me that it was Digidesign's (pre-Avid) predatory "upgrade" pricing that led me to move toward "native" audio (a brand new concept then) and to MOTU hardware in particular.

For a couple of years I ran my studio from a ProTools "Session 8" (I think that's what they called it): a stripped down 8-tracks only system that I synched to Performer and a couple of DA-88s (talk about spit and baling wire!). When I needed more tracks, I called to see what myupgrade price would be to a real ProTools system. As it turned out, the upgrade - which would be sold at full list - was actually going to cost MORE than simply junking my Session 8 and buying the new junk.

I got some pro-native-MOTU advice from a trusted sales-guy ("evenetually, it's all gonna be like this") and was impressed that Pat Metheney was using the new 2408 interface, so... I jumped.

Once again, I was a trendsetter. Now EVERYBODY'S gonna be doing it.