After splitting MIDI notes for individual drum tracks

[JHayes]

ok, I'm on to a solution of sorts.
I've linked GarageBand with Digital Performer using SoundFlower. I created 12 tracks in GB and selected a drum kit for each track. Manipulating the notes each kit plays can become groups of Kicks, Snares, etc.

I set different MIDI channels for each of the 12 kits.

Now I can select a different Kit for each of the split MIDI tracks from the drop-down menu in DP.

Thats as far as I got today. I'll try to customize each kit tomorrow to make a "kick kit" "snare kit" "crash kit"

Although each track is only triggering one note per kit, with GarageBand running 12 kits and DP running around 40 tracks and a ton of plug-ins there is some latency. . . so previewing the drum sounds in realtime is kinda weird. To fix it, I think all other audio/MIDI tracks would need to be nudged to play late with the delayed tracks. lol

Maybe more trouble than it's worth but maybe not.

I might need a faster Mac.

Jerry

[JHayes]

Well, it does not work as hoped. Still have the volume linking between the split MIDI tracks. I deleted the pan and volume info from the sequence editor but still no luck.

Also, Garageband won't run the separated tracks through without re-combining them to one stereo track. I guess simultaneous multiple channel MIDI recording isn't one of garageband's features.

Anyone recommend a program that will allow me to make groups of different samples to select from each of the split-MIDI track's outputs? It must also return to DP to record on separate audio tracks.

[JHayes]

You guys still with me? lol,

I'm not sure so if anyone knows, can Unisyn be used for what I need?

[Shooshie]

No, I don't think Unisyn will help you. Unisyn depends on helper files for every instrument that it is used with, and someone has to write those files. (MOTU doesn't write them; advanced users do, or someone in the factory where the instruments are created)

For all the work you're putting into this, you might find it SO much easier to buy some libraries and work "naturally" in DP. Garageband by no means is near the zenith of sampled library technology or quality. It's a frustrating little gadget, IMO. I threw it out long ago, but when I install iLife updates, it reappears.

Sorry; I shouldn't be discouraging you. You might find a breakthrough somewhere, and that would be a good thing. I assume you've found the MOTU tech links on using Garageband with DP. That's probably how you got this working, right?

For the multitrack problem, you can just freeze each track -- or rather record it manually to an audio track. Then you can use it simply as audio in DP.

For the delay that puts GB out of sync with your DP tracks, you might try Buffy. You can look it up in a thread or two here, in which people have figured it out and explained how they think it works. You won't get much help from the manual.

I do wish you luck. If you make any more breakthroughs, post them here and I'll add them to the Tips Sheet for those who follow in your footsteps. There are occasionally people who really do want to try this.

Shooshie

[JHayes]

No, I don't think Unisyn will help you. Unisyn depends on helper files for every instrument that it is used with, and someone has to write those files. (MOTU doesn't write them; advanced users do, or someone in the factory where the instruments are created)

For all the work you're putting into this, you might find it SO much easier to buy some libraries and work "naturally" in DP. Garageband by no means is near the zenith of sampled library technology or quality. It's a frustrating little gadget, IMO. I threw it out long ago, but when I install iLife updates, it reappears.

Sorry; I shouldn't be discouraging you. You might find a breakthrough somewhere, and that would be a good thing. I assume you've found the MOTU tech links on using Garageband with DP. That's probably how you got this working, right?

For the multitrack problem, you can just freeze each track -- or rather record it manually to an audio track. Then you can use it simply as audio in DP.

For the delay that puts GB out of sync with your DP tracks, you might try Buffy. You can look it up in a thread or two here, in which people have figured it out and explained how they think it works. You won't get much help from the manual.

I do wish you luck. If you make any more breakthroughs, post them here and I'll add them to the Tips Sheet for those who follow in your footsteps. There are occasionally people who really do want to try this.

Shooshie

Thank you for your candor

I did find the tech note to link GarageBand to DP. Would have been great if it worked for split MIDI! GB seems to receive MIDI in omni so all of my separate tracks ended up being re-combined and recorded to all 12 kits.

I think your right about buying libraries of sounds. I started looking around last night. I'd like to get a hold of the best sounds available.

"Drums on demand" sounds great for loops but I don't know anything about their sample collection. They did a great job at mixing them with comps and EQ but i'd like to use samples independently (with my own drum tracks)

If you have any suggestions for sample libraries I'd appreciate it greatly!

I will post here once i've found a solution to the split MIDI tracks but for now I need to get going on some recording projects.

Thanx again, Jerry

[kgdrum]

maybe you might want to try ezdrummer? it is very good, easy to use and an inexpensive way to get good drum sounds.

[JHayes]

That looks very nice. I like the fact you can output the separate drums for processing, and it includes room mics and overheads to add into the mix. Thats something you don't get short of room mic'ing yourself.

Thanks i'm going to see if that, or their advanced product called "Superior Drummer 2.0" will work for me.

I'm still going to continue looking for a DP native solution for split MIDI tracks, but this will get the ball rolling.

[kgdrum]

I use both,they are very good and ezd is an inexpensive way you can get good drum sound instantly,no daw has stuff like S2 BFD in the app.

[David Polich]

Wow - I think you all are making this MUCH harder than it has to be.

Just use the "Split Notes" feature in DP

1. Create your MIDI drum track
2. Create additional MIDI tracks for: kick, snare, hats, toms, cymbals
3. Highlight your "master" MIDI track and set its boundaries to the point where it begins to the point where it ends.
4. Go to the "Region" menu in DP and select "Split Notes".
5. You'll be presented with a dialog box. You can choose to "Cut" or "Copy"
notes (I usually use "Cut"). You can then choose where to "Send the Notes To:" - it can be either one of the MIDI tracks you created, or DP will create a new track for you. Let's say it's the kick on C1, you want to export the kick notes to the "Kick" track.
6. Below that, in the "Pitch Criterion" field, you specify note range to be
between "C1" and "C1"(in "Yamaha" spec, for Roland and others the MIDI map is shifted up an octave, so the C below middle C is "C2")
7. Click "Apply" and your kick notes will be moved to the Kick MIDI track.
8. Do the same for each of the other parts of the drum track - snares would usually be on D1 to E1 (D2 and E2 for Roland, etc.).

When you're done, you will have all your MIDI drum notes split out onto separate tracks, and you can assign those tracks to whatever sound source or MIDI channel you want. Then you can record them as audio - which is what I always do.

If I change my mind about a kick sound, later I can go back and use the MIDI kick track to trigger a kick from BFD2, or Battery, or whatever I want.

I've done drum tracks this way for years.

[JHayes]

Wow - I think you all are making this MUCH harder than it has to be.

Just use the "Split Notes" feature in DP

1. Create your MIDI drum track
2. Create additional MIDI tracks for: kick, snare, hats, toms, cymbals
3. Highlight your "master" MIDI track and set its boundaries to the point where it begins to the point where it ends.
4. Go to the "Region" menu in DP and select "Split Notes".
5. You'll be presented with a dialog box. You can choose to "Cut" or "Copy"
notes (I usually use "Cut"). You can then choose where to "Send the Notes To:" - it can be either one of the MIDI tracks you created, or DP will create a new track for you. Let's say it's the kick on C1, you want to export the kick notes to the "Kick" track.
6. Below that, in the "Pitch Criterion" field, you specify note range to be
between "C1" and "C1"(in "Yamaha" spec, for Roland and others the MIDI map is shifted up an octave, so the C below middle C is "C2")
7. Click "Apply" and your kick notes will be moved to the Kick MIDI track.
8. Do the same for each of the other parts of the drum track - snares would usually be on D1 to E1 (D2 and E2 for Roland, etc.).

When you're done, you will have all your MIDI drum notes split out onto separate tracks, and you can assign those tracks to whatever sound source or MIDI channel you want. Then you can record them as audio - which is what I always do.

If I change my mind about a kick sound, later I can go back and use the MIDI kick track to trigger a kick from BFD2, or Battery, or whatever I want.

I've done drum tracks this way for years.

Well, Yes i've done all of those things.. except I used "Copy" instead of "cut". Hmm, choosing "copy" caused DP to not only make 12 new MIDI tracks, but it also imported all of the different drum notes to their own track. It was automatic. Possibly why there is some goofy linking problem now.

*The problem is, With all of those separate tracks in DP now, If I lower the volume of one track (any track) it seems to become a master fader for all of the drum tracks.. kind of.

I assigned each track to different MIDI channels and that stopped the fader problem, but now each drum needs to trigger a drum sound.. but apples drum sounds are all part of kits. on channel 10.

If i've missed something else, i'd be glad to hear it! I know I can output through MIDI to outboard samplers but I am trying to accomplish everything with software.

BFD will do this?

[JHayes]

I'm guessing that I did not select a range for each drum note, and DP kept them all linked for some reason.

I'll go back and try a new split and follow your directions.

Thank you David, Will post results.

[David Polich]

You're welcome. By the way, once you get your MIDI notes split out to the different tracks, it's just a matter of assigning any of them to whatever target you want. If you have BFD loaded, then assign all of them to whatever MIDI channel you have BFD set to. If it's on MIDI channel 1, then you can set all your MIDI tracks to that same MIDI channel.

Or, if Battery was your choice for a kick drum, then load an instance of Battery, find a kit and a kick you like, set the MIDI kick track to "Battery- Channel x - "x" being whatever channel Battery is set to receive on.

If you have both BFD and Battery open in your project, they both can be on the same MIDI channel, it doesn't matter, or they can be on different MIDI channels.

That General MIDI assignment of drums on channel 10 was the dumbest arbitrary specification ever. It came from the Roland MT-32 which was the first commercially available MIDI module. I assign my MIDI channels in order of importance (to me) - drums on 1, bass on 2, piano on or guitar on 3, etc.

Good luck, let us know how it goes...

[tonester]

You're welcome. By the way, once you get your MIDI notes split out to the different tracks, it's just a matter of assigning any of them to whatever target you want. If you have BFD loaded, then assign all of them to whatever MIDI channel you have BFD set to. If it's on MIDI channel 1, then you can set all your MIDI tracks to that same MIDI channel.

Or, if Battery was your choice for a kick drum, then load an instance of Battery, find a kit and a kick you like, set the MIDI kick track to "Battery- Channel x - "x" being whatever channel Battery is set to receive on.

Great advice, David! I'm assuming that the whole reason of the separate MIDI tracks is to use different VI's combined as one kit? I.E bass drum from Battery, snare from BFD, etc.

But let's say you have a complete kit of say SD2 or EZD. Would you necessarily need to split the notes to individual MIDI tracks? Couldn't you just create extra audio tracks and assign each drum output in the internal mixer?

Maybe I'm missing the spirit of the original post, but I am going to try what you suggest!

If you have both BFD and Battery open in your project, they both can be on the same MIDI channel, it doesn't matter, or they can be on different MIDI channels.

That General MIDI assignment of drums on channel 10 was the dumbest arbitrary specification ever. It came from the Roland MT-32 which was the first commercially available MIDI module. I assign my MIDI channels in order of importance (to me) - drums on 1, bass on 2, piano on or guitar on 3, etc.

Good luck, let us know how it goes...

[David Polich]

Great advice, David! I'm assuming that the whole reason of the separate MIDI tracks is to use different VI's combined as one kit? I.E bass drum from Battery, snare from BFD, etc.

But let's say you have a complete kit of say SD2 or EZD. Would you necessarily need to split the notes to individual MIDI tracks? Couldn't you just create extra audio tracks and assign each drum output in the internal mixer?

Maybe I'm missing the spirit of the original post, but I am going to try what you suggest!

You are correct on your interpretation of what I posted. Yes, the idea is
to be able to create "kits" using different sources.

If you have a kit that is completely one source (like SD2), then yes you
can create extra audio tracks and assign each drum output in that VI's internal mixer.

However, experience has taught me that it's best to keep your options available...you may use one drum VI, such as SD2 or BFD2, for a kit, then
later decide you really don't like the kick you had and you want to use
a different source for the kick.

Anyway, as long as your individual drum tracks are MIDI, you can always
use them later to trigger different sounds from other drum VI's.

[JHayes]

I think I'll give Battery a try first, then add BFD. I need to upgrade to a G5 Dual 2.0 or faster and a MOTU interface.

I've been using the 24bit 96k M-Audio 1010 and 410 (which actually sound great) but they won't work on a newer G5.

I'd like an 828mk3 (or 2)