The Guessing Game

[monkey man]

I'd persist with the S/PDIF connection, Tom.
You might want to recheck all routings to and from the Mac/desk and ensure a loop isn't possible.

It could also be a monitoring routing/setting in DP, the mixer or even CueMix (its settings are active all the time; if you're not using it, make sure all layers/output pairs have been muted).

To my way of thinking, the S/PDIF bus is the logical one to use for the main bus in a digital mixer, and the ADAT protocol ideal for stems, sends and group buses (of which there are often 8 or multiples thereof).

[Tom Brighton]

i an going to try both a s/pdif and a toslink connectiion , I will let you know how it turns out ............... Tom

[Tom Brighton]

Success , I was able to route s/pdif mix ins/outs from the digital 328 desk to the 2408 mk3 by turning off the cuemix console and making sure play back was returned to the desk , one thing strange though all 8 input lights on bank C are lit for s/pidif while just 2 are selected . Thanks again , Tom

[monkey man]

Aha! It was my prime candidate.

Well done, Tom; this should free up ADAT ins and outs as a bonus.

[Tom Brighton]

there is one thing odd about the new stereo s/pdif to DP setup is when I go to meter bridge it is reading about -50 , something is reading when nothing is playing . A bit disturbing when something is showing on the meters and nothing is audible ..............

[monkey man]

Does it resemble the programme material or is it possibly digital clocking noise?

[Tom Brighton]

It was reading something from the desk's (digital 328) inputs even though there was nothing on or plugged in . when I zero'd all the input faders the meters stopped showing , so I'm a happy camper . now I wish I could monitor with mastering plugs without having to print a stereo track , that way I could have a realtime A/B comparison ...............Tom

[monkey man]

Hey Tom, glad to hear that's sorted.

You should be able to either:

1) Set up a processed split of your master bus (with active FX) in DP and switch to it therefrom.

2) Bypass/enable already-instantiated plugs on the master channel in DP.

3) Route a paralleled processed split of the master bus to an alternative monitoring input on the desk, meaning you could simply switch to it and back whenever you like.
Of course, this won't do if you're actively recording something due to the slight delay, but for quick reference checks it'd do fine, IMHO.

You may have a second set of S/PDIF inputs on the desk, or you could employ any analog pair of outs from your interface to route a paralleled, effected signal to a spare 2track in or some other option that allows switch toggled routing to the main monitoring (stereo) bus.

Just thinking out 'loud really; hopefully this sparks a useful plan.

[Tom Brighton]

Thanks again MM , this is where my set-up gets confusing , since I am using a outboard mixer , DP's mixer does not reflect what the actual mix is . I use the Digital 328 (outboard mixer) as 16 mono buses or 8 stereo (since the desk has 16 channels) and DP;s mixer for track counts . And use various EQ , pan , FX , and level combinations from both . the mix end result comes from the desk's 2 track mix output . I am using a stereo track on DP to record the mix . What I think you might be suggesting is to use a mix bus in DP instead of a stereo track and that will activate plugins without having to print them ? Sorry for being so long winded .....................Tom

[monkey man]

Correct, Tom; I was suggesting running that 2 track mix "live" into DP, and routing that back to a conveniently-selectable input such as a tape return.

I like the tape return idea 'cause traditionally, to my mind at least, this is/can be used for confidence monitoring/checks (hence my suggestion you pick an easily-"togglable" input pair on the desk).

[spitfire31]

I should have said when I boost levels they Peak at 0 with no overs .

That, unfortunately, is no guarantee that you won't get inter-sample peaks past 0 dBFS in cheaper players. Or, as it's expressed in the excellent PSP Xenon Manual:

"The reconstruction filter in the end-listener digital-to-analog converter might create inter-sample peaks that exceed the analog level corresponding to 0dBFS. This overshoot and ringing is known as the Gibb’s Effect. Many cheap analog circuits don't have enough headroom to handle such levels and get non-linear. As a result of the nonlinearity the distortion is introduced."

So, unless you're using an oversampling mastering-quality limiter, you'd better back off to, say, -0.2 dBFS.

Also, by burning your mix to CD at -8–10 dB and then boosting it, you're not even getting 16 bit resolution, more like 14 bits (6 dB = 1 bit).

Best,

Joey

[philbrown]

Thanks MM , the ditgital 328 has s/pdif as well as toslink and aes 2 track digital outputs . 16 adat toslink are inputed to the 328 taking up bank A and B of the 2408 mk3 which leaves bank C for s/pdif input to DP . every time I have tried to make this work . I have had terrible feed back loops and then crashes , but if I could make this work that would be half the battle won ...........

This is worth working out and making it work to record your mix right back into DP, IMO - if I understand your situation correctly. I've got a DA7 digital board and 2 macs and and 2 2408's with all kinds of criss-cross wiring of Lightpipe cables to get everything to everywhere. There's probably a way to do it, though you may need a small converter box perhaps.

You might consider starting a new thread - with very detailed info about your rig and connections and get some help to get this working. It might be as simple as some monitoring settings in DP or some such. No doubt there are 328 users here. If you do, I would put 328 in the subject line to get their attention.

Also FWIW I agree with Oldtimey above in that if you're doing several songs or an album there are matching issues that are better left for later rather than trying to do it all on the fly at mixdown. You can still insert a limiter just to catch the very top peaks that sneak through and/or gentle compression and leave yourself some headroom for later final mastering and level matching between tracks. And if you're in 24 bit, leave it 24 bit until the very last stage.

[Tom Brighton]

Thanks for the replies . sorry for not answering sooner , I've been getting bogged down in projects , gigs , and life . I was able to do 24 bit mixes Phill with s/pdif to and from the 328 by turning everything down in cue mix and things are sounding much more open . Thanks for suggesting to check for Digital 328 users on unicornation . I will start a new thread when I come up for air . My new (hopfully fixed) BLA micro clock is suppose to be here this week and that could be another thread as well . Thanks for all the great advise....................Tom

[monkey man]

No worries Tom.

Good luck, man.

[philbrown]

I was able to do 24 bit mixes Phill with s/pdif to and from the 328 by turning everything down in cue mix and things are sounding much more open . Thanks for suggesting to check for Digital 328 users on unicornation . I will start a new thread when I come up for air . My new (hopfully fixed) BLA micro clock is suppose to be here this week and that could be another thread as well . Thanks for all the great advise....................Tom

Excellent!