DP rebuild?

Vlacarus · Post by **Vlacarus** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:06 pm

When is motu going to rebuild DP from the ground up, instead of just adding and modifying what exists on this unstable framework!??

Not a disgruntled user at all...DP runs fine on my system. But isn't it due time for it to be completely redesigned (underneath the hood).

If something was announced already, forgive my post / naivete.

ltemma74 · Post by **ltemma74** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:09 pm

Not trying to be disrespectful, but I don't understand your concern. What's the unstable framework that you're referring to if it's running fine on your system?

DP6 is coming out soon. I have no idea if the "framework" you're referring to has been revamped. But some great changes are in the works. Check some threads here for more info!

Vlacarus · Post by **Vlacarus** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:14 pm

well its not a matter of whether it works on my system or not...I was basically asking if anyone knew about a rebuild that's all. Maybe i should have just asked that instead of saying 'unstable framework' or that its running fine...(with many inefficient work-arounds that is)

that's all...just asking if anyone knew any info.

toodamnhip · Post by **toodamnhip** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:23 pm

Vlacarus wrote:well its not a matter of whether it works on my system or not...I was basically asking if anyone knew about a rebuild that's all. Maybe i should have just asked that instead of saying 'unstable framework' or that its running fine...(with many inefficient work-arounds that is)

that's all...just asking if anyone knew any info.

I am amazed at people always assuming DP needs to be rebuilt from "the ground up" as if it has a bunch of old code in it with new stuff tacked on like a bad home repair.

This could be true but where and why do people make such assumptions?

It seems there has been a long standing assumption around here about DP code and really...none of you know what the hell you are talking about!!

You could be right, you could be wrong..but truthfully..
YOU ARE ALL GUESSING without knowing a DAMN thing.

Someone give me PROOF that DP code is written badly..lets here some inside programmer that knows what they are talking about.
All we have EVER proven is that Logic is more efficient than DP...but why?

Who the heck knows what they are talking about when it comes to "WHY"?
For all we know, OSx has a special acceptance code in it that is built around Logic that they let know one know about...who the heck knows why!

Maybe DP has it's code re-written from the ground up every time there is an update as far as any of us know...
this is such blah blah and guess work..and this thread started from a guy who's DP works fine..this is silly man.
Facts man..facts!
If you ask for DP code to be re written..know it is bad in the first place!

Vlacarus · Post by **Vlacarus** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:41 pm

nice, honestly dude. I was just asking if anyone knew anything.
seriously...just take it easy.

you do have valid points. but man. wow.

can i just ask with out stirring up the pot?
a simple i don't know would suffice...or maybe or yes or now.
I don't have the time to sit here and list ALL the trouble I have with DP day in day out to validate my question...
I specifically said...works fine on my system..to essentially avoid what this post has become.
Anyway thank you for your input toodamnhip you have made my day that much brighter.

ltemma74 · Post by **ltemma74** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:58 pm

Here's the posts I've found re: DP6. This is all the new info I'm aware of. The posts toward the bottom are the most relevant. I'm not sure if any of them address your specific concerns.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26326

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26280

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26017

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26134

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26125

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26018

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25997

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25976

If there's a particular problem/workaround you'd like to address, you may want to describe it in greater detail and one of the "powerusers" around here might be able to help you. I think all native DAWs could stand for a rebuild for stability's sake. But then there's a new OS and cycle continues!

Vlacarus · Post by **Vlacarus** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:10 pm

thanks Itemma74, i appreciate the linkage.

well to be specifc...my latest question is why does having 3 or 4 instances of any instrument (mainly KONTAKT x3) in v-rack hog up way more CPU(like 80% more) than if loading each instrument into the sequence. This of course is a hassle as when i now change from chunk to chunk it has to reload EVERYTHING.

and this coming from circle of musicians and composers, many who know what's under the hood, say it needs a serious working over. But i suppose now that i say that 'toodamnhip' would like me to supply those persons' name address and telephone numbers and criticisms to have my question be deemed as valid.

IAMLFO · Post by **IAMLFO** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:26 pm

Vlacarus wrote:thanks Itemma74, i appreciate the linkage.

well to be specifc...my latest question is why does having 3 or 4 instances of any instrument (mainly KONTAKT x3) in v-rack hog up way more CPU(like 80% more) than if loading each instrument into the sequence. This of course is a hassle as when i now change from chunk to chunk it has to reload EVERYTHING.

and this coming from circle of musicians and composers, many who know what's under the hood, say it needs a serious working over. But i suppose now that i say that 'toodamnhip' would like me to supply those persons' name address and telephone numbers and criticisms to have my question be deemed as valid.

Based on my experience it is Kontakt that is the problem. No matter what DAW I run Kontakt in it sucks up resources. DP is not entirely efficient, just look at Logic or Cubase to see that, but I don't think a complete rewrite would be required. Too much of the program falls into the `if it ain't broke don't fix it' category. At least it seems that way to me...

Hope this helps,

-Kevin

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:30 pm

Vlacarus wrote:When is motu going to rebuild DP from the ground up, instead of just adding and modifying what exists on this unstable framework!??

Not a disgruntled user at all...DP runs fine on my system. But isn't it due time for it to be completely redesigned (underneath the hood).

If something was announced already, forgive my post / naivete.

Hang on until DP6. I think your wishes will be reality then.

Shooshie

toodamnhip · Post by **toodamnhip** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:50 am

Well..I do admit I might have come off a bit strong..sorry man. But....

I am really tired of yrs of "let's give DP a complete re-write"..
To be honest..I am not even defending DP at all..really..

I dont care about defending DP.
I just feel there is some sort of mantra of "re write from the ground up" that got started yrs ago somewhere , somehow..and is all based off of no knowledge whatsoever of what it even means to ask for a complete re-build of code.

Can anyone here even explain the first thing about what would cause code to be inefficient? I mean, is DP looking for start up extensions from the old OS 9 days every time we hit record? Now that would be inefficient...

Perhaps the day DP scraps MAS and goes pure AU it will be more efficient? But again..I am guessing..I dont know anything about code.

We can all ask for more efficiency...this is a given. And, MOTU is already providng this with DP 6 by the way.But to say it will come about becasue of a complete, top to bottom code re-write ?..well...to "recommend" that. we have to know what we're talking about.

My point being, none of us does. So let's not recommnd HOW DP is to get more efficient ok?

Just ask for it to be more efficient..that's all we are qualified to say.

Guitar Gaz · Post by **Guitar Gaz** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:18 am

I think there is going to be some validity in the points he made - there will have been much adding on to the existing framework - whether you think this makes it clunkier than other programs as time goes on I cannot say. I think DP6 appears to be an attempt to repackage and remake DP based on some feedback. We won't know till we try it whether it is more efficient or streamlined etc. - but it is a start. DP is not beyond criticism and comparisons with other DAWs - but they all have their flaws. But it seems to be holding its own if not forging ahead. You can always try other DAWs I guess.......

IAMLFO · Post by **IAMLFO** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:30 am

I can't think of a major DAW forum that doesn't have a `rewrite from the ground up' thread that pops up every now and then. I think some people are more comfortable with new and shiny while others prefer tried and true. These threads are just a way of the new and shiny folks expressing how they feel. I recall the exact thing happening on the Cubase forums. Someone posted that Cubase should be rewritten from the ground up and a huge flame war between shiny and new and tried and true developed. What was interesting to me is, like Vlacarus there were no rock solid reasons for a totally rewrite, rather there was just a general feeling of need. It is part of the human equation I think and part of what makes us so interesting. If we didn't have differences life would become boring. Of course, it is how we react to those differences that shapes the world.

Good grief. Somehow I turned into a half-penny philosopher.

For what it is worth,

-Kevin

wylie1 · Post by **wylie1** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:25 am

DP sure looks allot different than Performer did.
It must have been rewritten somewhere along the line.
I like to see some examples of bad code.
Theres a big difference between buggy well written code and just plan bad code.
I'm sure they go through a review process before anything gets published and someone would say that looks like bad code and this would be an ongoing process.
Unless you have MOTU source code you'll never really know whats going on under the hood.

wylie1 · Post by **wylie1** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:55 am

Dam there is some bad code in there.

1304: 0 = lunch
1305: if soundbite = 0 then goto 1306:
1306: if lunch = beer then goto 1304:

This explains the never ending cycle of beers at lunch.

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:02 am

Based on the performance on the newest '08 macs, DP is a bit more flakey. This I have personally found although I'm not sure if the VI's I run have to anything do with it. I would guess so.

Now, if these apps are not written in complete cocoa and have ANY carbon code they apparently f up. RME discovered this recently and are redesigning the entire interface setup and mixer from scratch.

There is validity to your point but as Shooshie said, wait for DP 6. We have no reason to get excited until THAT software shows up buggy.

I doubt they will make that mistake this time with all the competition and Logic being so cheap.

MOTUnation.com

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