Heavy tracks done with DP 4.52

qo · Post by qo » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:13 pm

Alix, I understand your feelings, but also understand that music is an emotional outlet. Some folks are tortured, frantic, angry (and who can blame them given the state of the world) and the music they produce simply reflects that. IMHO, the result of listening to the music of tortured and angry souls is likely to be more torture and anger, but I'm very firm in my belief that self-expression shouldn't be muted unless it obviously harms others.

No denying the production of these pieces are in line with the genre. These didn't make it into my iTunes library, but that wasn't because of any deficiencies in production.

[ July 18, 2005, 01:14 AM: Message edited by: qo ]

ryst · Post by **ryst** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:09 am

Originally posted by Alix:
the sensations it brought to the surface were... anger, fear, claustrophobia, dissonance, angularity, darkness, machismo, pain, aggressiveness, domination, sadness, tunnel vision,.... in my opinion what was lacking was the soothing, elevating or feminine, the poetic - but then I guess it could perhaps be the intention, or then again my lack of awareness, I don't know

Alix,
I don't understand what the issue is here? All of the feelings and emotions you listed are experienced by humans everyday. Why not let them out in an artistic way? IMO, love is no different than hate. They are both emotions that humans feel everyday throughout their lives. If you don't like it, that's fine. You don't have to. But maybe these emotions you listed are being felt by people because of what's happening in the world? Just a thought.

[ July 18, 2005, 07:11 AM: Message edited by: ryst ]

wonder · Post by **wonder** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:09 am

although this is WAYYYY out of my league ... the mixes and musicianship are pretty amazing.

i listen to ballads and soul music...something i'd sure get called a "PUSS*" from that bands members; so this style is WAY out of my genre but i must say, the overall sound even coming from i ibook speakers was big, full, and clean.

I REALLY want to quote the scene from ACE VENTURA when i listen to those cuts.... "EXCUSE ME, is Woodstock here?.....thank you"

WKWizard · Post by **WKWizard** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:35 am

Alix, your generalized opinions are poor because they are generalized as well as uninformed.

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:57 am

Nice work James!

You used a lot of compression and limiting. Suggestions: in TH pumping occurs on the rhythm guitars, dunno if this is intentional or not. Limiting gives the impression that some amount of life is being taken from the track. Suggestion: a bit less limiting. You'd compromise a bit of level for more transparency. And you have level, believe me. As both comp & limiting don't affect too much the record, I'm prone to thinking you've been using waves plug-ins...

Guitar wall: sometimes phase and anti-phase like (either short delay, little nudging or imager at work ), yet balanced result: "problem" is not phase, but frequencies. I think eq could make things better, frequency-wise. A little subtraction in low-mids would make things less disturbing, thus increasing listening time & pleasure.

Vocals: good job!!! Drums: too.

Greetings

[ July 18, 2005, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: Archer ]

thermos · Post by **thermos** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:48 am

Dude, this stuff is super happening! I really like it.
Nice mixing, and great "classic" death metal bass drum sound. I was a huge Death/Cynic fan when i was a kid. Now I play jazz drums for a living, but still really enjoy this stuff.

sdfalk · Post by **sdfalk** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:50 am

Music is Music.
Dig it or don't.
People are going to make it though..
just the way they want

[ July 18, 2005, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: sdfalk ]

Seattle Pete · Post by **Seattle Pete** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:00 am

For the genre, this recording is masterfully done. Good work!.

However, I can't listen to vocals like that without thinking about the Cookie Monster. Then I laugh.

"COOOOOOOKKKKKIIIEEEEEE"!!!!!!

sdfalk · Post by **sdfalk** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:19 am

However, I can't listen to vocals like that without thinking about the Cookie Monster. Then I laugh.

"COOOOOOOKKKKKIIIEEEEEE"!!!!!!

hahahahahahah!!!

LOL

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:02 am

Originally posted by Seattle Pete:
For the genre, this recording is masterfully done. Good work!.

However, I can't listen to vocals like that without thinking about the Cookie Monster. Then I laugh.

"COOOOOOOKKKKKIIIEEEEEE"!!!!!!

Hilarious!

Genre tastes and aesthetics aside, it's hard to deny the proficiency of those recordings.

Saintmatthew · Post by **Saintmatthew** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:41 am

Keee-rist! That sounds sweet! Blows away most of the stuff Morrisound pumped out in the 80's/90's. Maybe a little low-end like others have suggested but I know it muds up quick with double kick stuff. Hat's off.....

Kubi · Post by **Kubi** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:42 pm

Originally posted by Alix:
... and Kubi, (...) so you see it takes all kinds to fill and create a world full of meaning, beauty and peace and, we're all standing in the middle of it! Right?

I could not agree more.

[ July 18, 2005, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: Kubi ]

wonder · Post by **wonder** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:51 pm

And I quote Nigel and David St Hubbins ... "he's just takin a piss.."

cant we all just get along?

jfmguitarist · Post by **jfmguitarist** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:39 pm

Originally posted by Archer:
Nice work James!

You used a lot of compression and limiting. Suggestions: in TH pumping occurs on the rhythm guitars, dunno if this is intentional or not. Limiting gives the impression that some amount of life is being taken from the track. Suggestion: a bit less limiting. You'd compromise a bit of level for more transparency. And you have level, believe me. As both comp & limiting don't affect too much the record, I'm prone to thinking you've been using waves plug-ins...

Guitar wall: sometimes phase and anti-phase like (either short delay, little nudging or imager at work ), yet balanced result: "problem" is not phase, but frequencies. I think eq could make things better, frequency-wise. A little subtraction in low-mids would make things less disturbing, thus increasing listening time & pleasure.

Vocals: good job!!! Drums: too.

Greetings

first of all, thanks for the comments and critiques everyone! i do need to make one thing clear, especially perhaps for the sake of Alix: this is not my band nor did i have anything at all to do with writing this music.. i was just the producer/mixer/mastering engineer. also, this band, though based in Atlanta, is not really "American", but they are mostly Israeli, Spanish, and Mexican. furthermore, the lyrics of all 3 tracks are basically a history lesson of the ancient Canaanite and Sumerian cultures, particulary in the Valley of Hinnom (pictured on the cover art), so yeah... nothing but history there. as far as the "vibes" the music puts off, and i LOVE your quote about how it makes you feel by the way, exreme music has never made me feel anything but better... it's a release, and as with any release, Heavy Metal fans use it as therapy. much of my own music is very similar in "vibe" to this band's and i have several letters saved from kids who told me that my music helped them get through hard times... so forgive me if i just cannot comprehend what you are afraid of.

Archer, thanks for the detailed critique man... one thing, the only compression on the guitars is a little C4 with only the low-mid band enabled, to control the low-mids by compressing and attenuating with that plug's Gain control.... i'm really happy with the low-mid content and feel the guitars are really good as they are, but i do appreciate your thoughts. i've tried really hard since reading your post to spot any pumping on that track and i can't, so i think you may be hearing some "brick wall" edits i did in the guitars... removing all traces of amp hum in very short breaks in one part of that song. that creates a very precise ,inhuman perhaps, "gated" sound and was definitely what i was going for. also, there was no delay, nudging, or stereo imager at work on the guitars.. just 4 rhythm tracks right where they were originally recorded with only C4 on each track to control low-mids.

i went back and forth about low end content of these mixes for a while during mastering and after quite a lot of experimenting i decided on where it is... any more and the fast double kicks just got ridiculous (in the mix i cut down a bit more on the fast double-kick parts compared to the single kick parts).. metal in general has a tighter and less pronounced "low-end profile" than most rock, r&b, or most certainly dance, pop, or rap so i feel that i'm at appropriate low-end content for the genre, and i did a lot of A/B listening to some of the style's top rated releases production-wise to confirm my instincts.

You're partially right with the Waves plugs guess.. primarily my mastering chain was an FMR Audio RNC for the Bus Compressor and then out to my Finalizer 96k, but since i printed my mix back into a stereo track in the session at 24bits (since that was where the session was already, i had to dither with Waves IDR to 16bit for the final bounce.

thanks for taking the time to check out the mixes and comment... this has been a killer experience!

[ July 19, 2005, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: James Murphy ]

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:26 pm

James,

I'm glad to know you've been using 4 rhythm guitar tracks, imaging done right, IMO. This means you invested some more time for better results. C4 helped making things feel more solid and controlled, and judging from the results you set it very well. Referring to eq, I got the impression in a section that the guitar frequencies were kind of claiming space from each other, not a thing that is apparent, but which made me think there was room for improvement. You know, everything sounds good, it's just one of those little things that might be worth experimenting with.

It can be that I reckognised pumping instead of the "gated" effect used. I felt it sported the kind of aggressiveness tipical of compression (invisible comp.), but this was only apparent to me when listening with headphones. And surely, aggressiveness fits the genre. As you mentioned, this occurs in one particular section of the track.

Low end is good, tigth, controlled.

RNC and Finalizer are good choices. Even though it's not unlike for this genre to use similar settings, I'd try out some less limiting during mastering for the reasons mentioned before.

You have an impressive amount of good work behind you. You show skill, kept the overview. Well done!!

What's more, you show that DP allows to get pro results and, even more interesting, you crush people I know that hide themselves behind a PT rig. Well done!!

MOTUnation.com

Heavy tracks done with DP 4.52

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