Recording Mic with the Big Fat Open Airy sound of the 50's ?

[Matt Mckenna]

I'm a male Singer/Songwriter and have been looking for a recording mic with that big , fat , open, Airy , sound that they had in the 50's. (Elvis , Cash , Orbison , Sinatra ) , I did some research and found that the mic's they used then where the Tellefunkin or (Nueman)U47 , and the AkG-C12 . The problem is these mic's cost more than my car. Does anyone know of a more inexpencive way to acchive that sound. I have a Shure KSM27 mic and a ART-Pro Channel tube mic preamp. Both sound great for the doe , and I get a nice warm tone , but I would like to get a more Open , Airy , Wider , sound. I think a new mic may be in order. Upon my research I found a few mic's I'm interested in ...

Rode K2 tube mic
Rode Nt2a
Nady- RsM 2 Ribbon Mic
Groove Tubes Gt-66 Tube mic
Se-Z5600 Tube mic

Any advice or recomendations would be appreciated!

[jmoore]

I'm a male Singer/Songwriter and have been looking for a recording mic with that big fat open sound that they had in the 50's. (Elvis , Cash , Orbison , Sinatra ) , I did some research and found that the mic's they used then where the Tellefunkin or (Nueman)U47 , and the AkG-C12 . The problem is these mic's cost more than my car. Does anyone know of a more inexpencive way to acchive that sound. I have a Shure KSM27 mic and a ART-Pro Channel tube mic preamp. Both sound great for the doe , but I'm thinking a new mic may be in order. Upon my research I found a few mic's I'm interested in ...

Rode K2 tube mic
Rode Nt2a
AkG- C-414bxl2
Nady- RsM 2 Ribbon Mic
blue - baby bottle

Any advice or recomendations would be appreciated!

I used to own the Baby Bottle. Nice mic, but definitely not the sound your looking for. I currently own a C414B/ULS, although it's not exactly the same as the newer 414 you're looking at, I'd be inclined to say that it's still not it the ballpark. I'd certainly defer to some of the more experience-based opinions you're likely to get, but my suggestion would be that you look into either a nice tube mic or ribbon mic. I've read some really nice reviews on the Rode NTK (are they still making that model?). Also, don't underestimate the significant role that a nice mic pre and compressor/limiter can play in acheiving "the sound". I know that a lot of old recording engineers won't track vocals without an LA-2 or an 1176 in the chain.

[Matt Mckenna]

Thank's jmoore ,

I have a ART Pro Channel which is a tube preamp with a tube compreesor an Eq. I just got it and it does fatten the sound up alot. The Rode NtK I used to have and I sold it. It was a nice mic with a nice warmth and clarity to it , but it was alittle too brite on the mid presence and alittle harsh on the high end.
I heard that the k2 tube mic they now make is smoother in those area's. I also have a nicer preamp than I used have, so that could resolve that problem.

[EMRR]

The mic is infinitely important, but that choice depends on your voice quality. I have some 'old faithful' mics I use 90% of the time, but certain singers can make them sound broken; not the right match. My experiences with the KSM32 would lead me to believe it a possible good choice for your application. I am remembering the KSM27 having more of a presence/treble peak than the KSM32; could be wrong. That could work for or against you depending on your voice.

I tend to think you will really only get the sound you are after with a vintage tube pre, and there are a lot to choose from. I haven't heard a modern one that really sounds like the real thing. I think the ART has no transformers, and the tube is not the initial gainstage, so it's not the same type as used pre-1970 at all. It's an entirely new beast. A standalone vintage piece like the RCA BA-2, BA-3, BA-13 or a Gates SA-134 would probably make you very happy. These would all need a trip to a tech for checkout and new capacitors and tubes due to their 50+ year age, and they are not cheap. Cheaper and more like what you are looking for than something new like a UA or Groove Tubes box. You'd also need an outboard phantom supply and maybe an inline input pad. May be more of a science project than you want to consider.

Your milage may vary......the disclaimer here is that I'm a vintage preamp freak.

[markwayne]

I haven't heard a modern one that really sounds like the real thing. I think the ART has no transformers, and the tube is not the initial gainstage, so it's not the same type as used pre-1970 at all. It's an entirely new beast.

This is true of most of the "affordable" tube pres out there. Most are hybrid designs that derive most gain staging from ICs and then just stick a tube in the signal path somewhere. Many use a wall wart power supply (no headroom and a sure sign that the tube is mostly cosmetic) and very few use transformers on the input and/or output stages as good quality transformers are expensive. The transformers (and the quality of all the discrete components) are far more important to the tone of a mic pre than the presense of tubes in the circuit. I would second the vote for a good ribbon mic combined with a high-qulity, transformer-based mic pre. (You are going to need plenty of gain for most ribbons.)

BTW - I have one of the Nady's in my collection and, while it does not warrant the kind of hype it has received, it is a decent little mic. I actually use it on my voice quite often combined with a BA-Neve pre and it fattens my voice up nicely while cutting back a lot of my mid-range honk. Almost makes my voice listenable.

Wayne

[m2]

Have you tried the R84 ribbon mic? Very nice. Kinda dark sounding out of the box, but with the right EQ it may take you where you want to go.

Under a 1K about the same as a 414.

Good luck with your recording!

[airtime]

Hi Matt, of the mics you listed as possible choices I can recommend the sE Z5600A. However, as EMRR mentioned, your choice hinges largely on the quality of your voice. Practically speaking the only way you can make the decision is to try the mics in your own studio and that's not usually an option. However sE may still offer their free 7-day trial in your own studio with any of their mics. I tried two of theirs, the Z5600a and the Z3300a, very similar looking mics, and somewhat close in sound quality, but for my voice the Z5600A gave me the results I've always wanted.

[mortvillefugitive]

I use the K2 through a 610 pre and then an 1176 for vocals, and I've never had any complaints. I'll refer back to what other people have said... voice tone is about 90% of where the tone comes from.

[EMRR]

I haven't heard a modern one that really sounds like the real thing. I think the ART has no transformers, and the tube is not the initial gainstage, so it's not the same type as used pre-1970 at all. It's an entirely new beast.

This is true of most of the "affordable" tube pres out there. Most are hybrid designs that derive most gain staging from ICs and then just stick a tube in the signal path somewhere. Many use a wall wart power supply (no headroom and a sure sign that the tube is mostly cosmetic) and very few use transformers on the input and/or output stages as good quality transformers are expensive. The transformers (and the quality of all the discrete components) are far more important to the tone of a mic pre than the presense of tubes in the circuit. I would second the vote for a good ribbon mic combined with a high-qulity, transformer-based mic pre. (You are going to need plenty of gain for most ribbons.)

I believe the higher priced classic style tube preamps on the market today also differ in some other important aspects; higher amounts of negative feedback in the circuits, use of higher gain and higher impedance tubes like 12AX7's, and more highly filtered power supplies. These all affect the sound and move one further from a realistic interpretation of late 1940's to mid 1950's sound. You get different transient response, different harmonic content, and a sharper transistion into clipping with the modern and even post-1960 types. Some of the post-WWII designs have extremely long and smooth curves into distortion/clipping and can get hot and sound great because of it. In comparison the modern types don't really do that.

Don't forget the fingerprint of analog tape either.

[jaffi]

Class "A" transformers, baby. You keep buying your tubes. I'll stick with Great River, Pheonix and Neve.

[EMRR]

Class "A" transformers, baby. You keep buying your tubes. I'll stick with Great River, Pheonix and Neve.

okay

tube pre's are also usually class A transformer......add 'discrete solid state' for those devices.

[Timeline]

Pre-amp tone (do it yourself) if your handy.

Buy a couple of 2520 module and get schematic for API mic pre. Use a Lundahl transformer http://www.lundahl.se/pdfs/datash/1538_8xl.pdf

breadboard yourself.

find a cheap bench supply on ebay +- 18v variable. at least 200ma.
about 50 bucks. No phantom supply.

For a 8000 mic for cheap find 414 with brass ck12 capsule (about a grand), Send it to
John Peluso and buy his large body mic for $1500. request EF14 tube.
Have him use CK12 you send him and replace the 414 capsule with his clone of ck12 which also sounds great on the top end and sell for about 800 bucks.

Total mic costs about $2500 and you will have an 8K sound. (note: this is a card pattern only mic.

About $2800 to $3500 total and your smokin!