Developing a new Drum Library, would like your input please!

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:26 pm

I have just started the lengthy process of designing a DRUM SAMPLE CD specifically for MachFive. I am currently sampling my own Premier Signia Kit, but I plan on sampling a few other pro kits over the next few months or so. I am sampling the sounds DRY, which leads to my question.... I have very high quality convolution and acoustics space reverbs such as TL Space, Waves IR1 and Digidesign Revibe to re-create the space...but some prefer completely dry hits while others prefer some ambience. My goal for this project is to make the kit sound like you would hear it in the studio, NOT to be a completely processed kit or completely dry either. I'm using Liquid Channels on the main Kick and Snare tracks, a Focusite Red8 for the outside of the kick and bottom of snare (with Royer ribbons), toms are going through a Focusrite Red1, overhead cymbals are Sabian AA with Earthworks TC30K's through a GML pre, and hi-hat and Ride (mics TBA) also through a GML pre... everything is being tracked into ProToolsHD. I've chosen to record @ 24-bit/44.1kHz.

So I'm curious of the MachFive users here, who would be interested in a highly affordable (yet really good quality) drum sample CD focusing on about 3-4 kits? And of those, would you prefer completely dry or "some ambience" in the samples? In addition, I'll be developing a loop-library later in 2006...

Thanks for your time

iMAS · Post by **iMAS** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:07 pm

Highly affordable = meaning around $100, sure !!! There's a lot of great sampled drums now with BFD, DFH, etc...but they cost a lot too. I'd love to have more drum samples for Mach 5. Personally, I would prefer bone-dry...because I use waves ir-1 as well. But don't think I'd be interested in the loop library though. Too many of those around.

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:07 pm

If you haven't already, you should familiarize yourself with fxpansion BFD. Presumably, as a Sweetwater dude, you have.

If not, check it: It offers all you intend to supply, including many kit pieces (i.e., various snares, toms, kicks, etc.), some with different velocity hits. It also offers the ability to use these samples dry or with three different room mics which you can mix in as you like -- all have separate outs. It also offers multiple virtual mic placement for the snare, kick and different room mics. And it ships with prefab MIDI fills and beats and MIDI maps. So, it covers a lot of bases as a "kit-recorded-in-a-studio" VI app.

If you can make a kit library for MachFive (or other samplers), I'd suggest pricing it very competitively.

As for your listed recording chains, it's nice to know, but I don't think it offers much in the way of marketing persuasion. People just want to know that the pieces are well-recorded. Plus, what do you really know learning that a piece was recorded through a Liquid Channel?

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:30 pm

Chris,

I listed the gear so that those familiar with it understand the quality of front-end being used

Yes, I'm very familiar with BFD and find it to be a wonderful program that I sell many copies of!

Personally, I don't use drum-machines as I've always done my own programming thus why I am interested in designing this library since I am using MachFive (and GigaStudio). There are some very good libraries out there, but as some suggested VERY expensive too. My design idea isn't to cram as many samples as possible, but to offer 3-4 really good kits that will sound quite convincing....because they were miked up and sampled in the studio, not individually the way other libraries have been recorded. And oh yeah, well under $100

The loops part of it would be completely different altogether.

I'll keep it nameless, but I have a drum library that has some really good samples...but they are over-mixed and sound like a final "record" so to speak. They also include some dedicated kicks and snares that are EXCELLENT, but no toms or cymbals to go along with it. I'll post some sequences as an example when I get the first kit done... thanks for your suggestions.

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:59 pm

Hey, here's an aside to consider. If you want. Flip side of the coin, I guess...

But I'd love to have some kit samples that are not mic-ed nicely and conventionally. That is, I'd love to have a few hack "garage" samples kits. You know, like a used kit sampled in a warehouse environment. Some real clangy, trashy, ugly sh*t. Something unique and anything-but-clean-and-pristine.

To wit, I'd also invest in a "ringy" kit" with toms and snares that are loose and ring "badly." I was listening to a Weezer album yesterday and digging how loose and roomy the toms were ("El Scorcho" off "Pinkerton," should you care to reference).

Now, I have Altiverb for room convolutions as well as various distressing plugs, but some authentic wacked drum samples would really be so much cooler.

Just throwing it out there...

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:02 am

Chris, actually one of the presets I'm doing will be a slightly-EQ'd version but with full ring and sustain...no compression. I actually have been considering something like a "garage" kit, but not sure if that is really worth the effort.

kwiz · Post by **kwiz** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:41 am

I thinks chrispiks garbage idea is cool, especially for velocity switching the drum samples.

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:53 am

BradLyons wrote:Chris, actually one of the presets I'm doing will be a slightly-EQ'd version but with full ring and sustain...no compression. I actually have been considering something like a "garage" kit, but not sure if that is really worth the effort.

That's cool re: full ring and sustain. I'd put that to use.

re: garage kit -- that's definitely more niche than what you're currently working on. FWIW, I think there'd be a customer base for it. If you're talking pricing under $100 for, say, two to four garage / trash kits, I'd definitely be interested, especially if they also come with a unique ambience / room sound as an option.

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:25 am

Honestly, I don't think I could program a trash-kit.... my heart wouldn't be into it and if it's not into it, the quality and care wouldn't be there.

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:15 pm

BradLyons wrote:Honestly, I don't think I could program a trash-kit.... my heart wouldn't be into it and if it's not into it, the quality and care wouldn't be there.

Oh, that's cool. I wasn't trying to talk you into anything. Just throwing out suggestions for future libraries, should you be interested. If not, so be it.

BTW, Brad: I grew up in South Bend, Indiana -- not far from Fort Wayne. Used to drive through F.W. often en route to east coast destinations.

russhughes · Post by **russhughes** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:12 pm

BradLyons wrote:Chris,

I listed the gear so that those familiar with it understand the quality of front-end being used Yes, I'm very familiar with BFD and find it to be a wonderful program that I sell many copies of! Personally, I don't use drum-machines as I've always done my own programming thus why I am interested in designing this library since I am using MachFive (and GigaStudio). There are some very good libraries out there, but as some suggested VERY expensive too. My design idea isn't to cram as many samples as possible, but to offer 3-4 really good kits that will sound quite convincing....because they were miked up and sampled in the studio, not individually the way other libraries have been recorded. And oh yeah, well under $100 The loops part of it would be completely different altogether.

I'll keep it nameless, but I have a drum library that has some really good samples...but they are over-mixed and sound like a final "record" so to speak. They also include some dedicated kicks and snares that are EXCELLENT, but no toms or cymbals to go along with it. I'll post some sequences as an example when I get the first kit done... thanks for your suggestions.

Here's my own 10 pence worth.

* A stick set
* A spilt stick/rods set
* The kit with an ambient room option
* Zero reverb

tbenson · Post by **tbenson** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:58 am

russhughes wrote:
BradLyons wrote:Chris,

I listed the gear so that those familiar with it understand the quality of front-end being used Yes, I'm very familiar with BFD and find it to be a wonderful program that I sell many copies of! Personally, I don't use drum-machines as I've always done my own programming thus why I am interested in designing this library since I am using MachFive (and GigaStudio). There are some very good libraries out there, but as some suggested VERY expensive too. My design idea isn't to cram as many samples as possible, but to offer 3-4 really good kits that will sound quite convincing....because they were miked up and sampled in the studio, not individually the way other libraries have been recorded. And oh yeah, well under $100 The loops part of it would be completely different altogether.

I'll keep it nameless, but I have a drum library that has some really good samples...but they are over-mixed and sound like a final "record" so to speak. They also include some dedicated kicks and snares that are EXCELLENT, but no toms or cymbals to go along with it. I'll post some sequences as an example when I get the first kit done... thanks for your suggestions.
Here's my own 10 pence worth.

* A stick set
* A spilt stick/rods set
* The kit with an ambient room option
* Zero reverb

I agree here Brad. A Few different kits with both dry and room versions. I think most everyone will have a decent reverb to apply for bigger sounds if needed. I also like the idea of at least one set with rods for a more mellow alternative. The main thing I would like is something very efficient, but still good sounding. I use DFH Superior, but it's a major CPU and ram hog. They've improved things in the last version, but it's still a little cumbersome to use. I love it and hate it all at the same time!

I've heard the same about BFD.

PS: I just received my new Apple monitor and Audix i5's and D6. Me likey! I'm also digging the Focusrite Saffire I got for Christmas ( my mom ordered it for me from you guys). It's working well with my Power Book and I'm looking forward to doing some remote recording soon! Thanks for all you're help!

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:01 am

Hey Tony, nice seeing you here!

Glad you got your new toys okay! I'm enjoying my new toys, too...

PG · Post by PG » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:05 pm

Brad - let us mix dry/ambiance like the Soniccouture sampled drum kits. It really cool - if you have a good room!

http://www.soniccouture.com/

russhughes · Post by **russhughes** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:39 am

tbenson wrote:
russhughes wrote:
BradLyons wrote:Chris,

I listed the gear so that those familiar with it understand the quality of front-end being used Yes, I'm very familiar with BFD and find it to be a wonderful program that I sell many copies of! Personally, I don't use drum-machines as I've always done my own programming thus why I am interested in designing this library since I am using MachFive (and GigaStudio). There are some very good libraries out there, but as some suggested VERY expensive too. My design idea isn't to cram as many samples as possible, but to offer 3-4 really good kits that will sound quite convincing....because they were miked up and sampled in the studio, not individually the way other libraries have been recorded. And oh yeah, well under $100 The loops part of it would be completely different altogether.

I'll keep it nameless, but I have a drum library that has some really good samples...but they are over-mixed and sound like a final "record" so to speak. They also include some dedicated kicks and snares that are EXCELLENT, but no toms or cymbals to go along with it. I'll post some sequences as an example when I get the first kit done... thanks for your suggestions.
Here's my own 10 pence worth.

* A stick set
* A spilt stick/rods set
* The kit with an ambient room option
* Zero reverb
I agree here Brad. A Few different kits with both dry and room versions. I think most everyone will have a decent reverb to apply for bigger sounds if needed. I also like the idea of at least one set with rods for a more mellow alternative. The main thing I would like is something very efficient, but still good sounding. I use DFH Superior, but it's a major CPU and ram hog. They've improved things in the last version, but it's still a little cumbersome to use. I love it and hate it all at the same time! I've heard the same about BFD.

PS: I just received my new Apple monitor and Audix i5's and D6. Me likey! I'm also digging the Focusrite Saffire I got for Christmas ( my mom ordered it for me from you guys). It's working well with my Power Book and I'm looking forward to doing some remote recording soon! Thanks for all you're help!

I'm with Tony CPU efficiency is a must, especially with the current cpu 'challenges' presented in PT7.0