XLR Cables: Are XLR mic cables okay for line level? My gut says no.

[James Steele]

So here's something I'm not sure of. I have new studio monitors coming and they are powered monitors, so I think I'm going to need two 10-foot XLR cables, but these cables will be attached to the main outputs of my 828es and then go to the XLR inputs of the powered monitors. I wanted to just buy something online rather than make my own, but the only thing I have handy is microphone cable. It seems to me, instinctively, that I shouldn't use cables meant for very low microphone output for the line level signal, yet all I see when I search for XLR cables on sites is "microphone" cable.

Are these interchangeable? My gut says no. I may just grab some of the Belden 8451 I have and solder my own again. I just know I'll be itching to hear my new monitors. They should arrive on Monday.

[James Steele]

Okay... just found on a different forum where someone that for connecting a line level signal (e.g. from an interface or monitor controller) to powered speakers, standard XLR “microphone” cables okay and there "is no separate category of XLR line level cable. Balanced mic and line level cables have the exact same requirements."

Is this really true? If so, okay then... that's easy to procure.

[HCMarkus]

Is this really true?

Yes.

[James Steele]

Is this really true?

Yes.

Ahhh okay. I dunno why that seemed off to me.

[mikehalloran]

Standard XLR jacks and plugs are rated 15A @ 600V. As long as the cable inside is 24 gauge or heavier, you are good. If star-quad as mine are, 28G is ok since you have two wires to a leg and they add up to act as a single wire.

[James Steele]

Okay... monitors come tomorrow. Follow up question:

1) I have heard that the cables from the main outs to the monitors need to be the same length. Mismatched length can cause signal to get to one monitors slightly sooner than the other. I know electricity travels at pretty much speed of light, so maybe that's nonsense?

[HCMarkus]

Okay... monitors come tomorrow. Follow up question:

1) I have heard that the cables from the main outs to the monitors need to be the same length. maybe that's nonsense?

Nonsense it is. Utter nonsense... unless, of course the mismatch involves a trip across the country or around the world.

[James Steele]

Okay... monitors come tomorrow. Follow up question:

1) I have heard that the cables from the main outs to the monitors need to be the same length. maybe that's nonsense?

Nonsense it is. Utter nonsense... unless, of course the mismatch involves a trip across the country or around the world.

Sounded like it to me. I heard the same thing about speaker cables... that is from a power amp to passive speakers.

One other thing... I'm trying to decide and about to make a new topic for is do you need to "burn in" new monitors. I'm reading a lot that suggests that scientific evidence says it's unnecessary, however ADAM (which is the manufacturer of the monitors I bought) recommends burning them in. I'm eager to just throw them up on the stands and get going.

[HCMarkus]

Better to throw them up on the stands than just throwing up.

They will break in with use, but you can always leave 'em playing back from Spotify or Apple Music when you take a lunch break.

Looking forward to (hopefully) hearing you are truly stoked.

[James Steele]

Looking forward to (hopefully) hearing you are truly stoked.

Me too! My big fear is dropping nearly $2500 on a pair of monitors and then being non-plussed. My room isn't perfectly treated. However, what I really do like about them is that you can measure your room with Sonarworks (which I already have a license for and measurement mic) and then upload the profile directly into the monitor via ethernet. At which point it will be stored in the monitor itself. Apparently, latency is minimal... about 1.5ms from what I've read online.

My one concern was the 7" bass drivers and low frequency extension, but I've talked to a few people who own them and said they're fine without a sub unless you're doing hiphop, etc. I should be okay with what I use them for. Plus, I can always check the low end on Slate VSX if I'm not sure.

These will replace my JBL 4410 on the stands in front of my desk... and I'll probably retire the ASP8s. That were positioned on the desk as nearfields. I'm thinking I'd like to switch them out with something that is smaller and perhaps more specialized that can be used more as a tool to check certain frequencies. Maybe something like Mixcubes or something. I sold my NS10s years ago, else I'd have thrown them up there. I know there's a company now that sells a NS-10 recreation that is endorsed by Chris Lord Alge.

[bayswater]

Okay... monitors come tomorrow. Follow up question:

1) I have heard that the cables from the main outs to the monitors need to be the same length. Mismatched length can cause signal to get to one monitors slightly sooner than the other. I know electricity travels at pretty much speed of light, so maybe that's nonsense?

I remember that advice from the first set of Mackie monitors I had. Its not about the speed of light, but that other electrical properties of a cable (eg inductance, and capacitance) will vary by length and that can affect the sound. The effect is probably trivial compared to the acoustical properties of the speakers’ location. Inductance on a 10’ cable would delay a signal by maybe 25 nanoseconds, and on a cheap long. cable there might be some barely measurable high frequency drop off. But since we tend to get the cables in pairs anyway, it’s not much of a problem to use cables of the same length.

[Phil O]

I heard the same thing about speaker cables... that is from a power amp to passive speakers.

With passive speakers (8 ohms or less) I've heard arguments that the issue is resistance of the cable (not inductance or capacitance). But I'm skeptical.

For example with an 8 ohm speaker, 0.98 ohm of resistance in the cable would result in approximately -1 dB (1 dB of attenuation). 16 gauge stranded copper wire is around 4 ohms per 1000 ft, which means that 245 ft of wire is about 0.98 ohms. Speaker wire is two conductor so we're talking about a 122 ft cable being about 0.98 ohms. That means a 122 foot difference between cable lengths results in 1 dB difference between speakers (varies a little with overall length).
To me that seems like an unlikely scenario, and it's only 1 dB.. Just sayin'.

I haven't worked out the math for inductance and capacitance (if someone else wants to, have at it) but I'm guessing if anything they play a larger role, but again we're talking about the DIFFERENCE between cable lengths, not the overall length of each. In a studio setting, I can't imagine it being a big deal. (If one is 3 ft. and the other is 47 ft. maybe )

I'll get off my soap box now.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

[mikehalloran]

With passive speakers (8 ohms or less) I've heard arguments that the issue is resistance of the cable (not inductance or capacitance). But I'm skeptical.

As one should be. it's only an issue if the gauge is too small, say 18 or higher. Which of us would use anything that small once we got out of our college dorms?

There's an old chart from Roger Russell's ancient article debunking the "boutique cables" myths:

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#conditioner

For those not wanting to read the whole thing (again?), here's the chart by itself:

Screenshot 2024-06-24 at 10.07.32 AM.png (714.67 KiB) Viewed 4390 times

I have been using 12 Gauge low Voltage outdoor lighting cable for decades. Easy to buy by the foot at my local hardware store.

[HCMarkus]

I heard the same thing about speaker cables... that is from a power amp to passive speakers.

With passive speakers (8 ohms or less) I've heard arguments that the issue is resistance of the cable (not inductance or capacitance). But I'm skeptical.

For example with an 8 ohm speaker, 0.98 ohm of resistance in the cable would result in approximately -1 dB (1 dB of attenuation). 16 gauge stranded copper wire is around 4 ohms per 1000 ft, which means that 245 ft of wire is about 0.98 ohms. Speaker wire is two conductor so we're talking about a 122 ft cable being about 0.98 ohms. That means a 122 foot difference between cable lengths results in 1 dB difference between speakers (varies a little with overall length).
To me that seems like an unlikely scenario, and it's only 1 dB.. Just sayin'.

I haven't worked out the math for inductance and capacitance (if someone else wants to, have at it) but I'm guessing if anything they play a larger role, but again we're talking about the DIFFERENCE between cable lengths, not the overall length of each. In a studio setting, I can't imagine it being a big deal.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

Enjoyed it, Phil. And the chart presented by Mike is great for Passive speakers.

I think it is important to keep in mind James is working with a Line Level output to a high impedance input (his new ACTIVE speakers) in which case the nominal resistance of a cable is a non-issue.

[James Steele]

I think it is important to keep in mind James is working with a Line Level output to a high impedance input (his new ACTIVE speakers) in which case the nominal resistance of a cable is a non-issue.

Well, looks like I won't be getting them today. I bought from Thomann. Not the first time I bought gear from them and this time I'm plagued by bureaucracy. They were initially held up when they first arrived on the East Coast from Germany by UPS until Thomann responded to some requirement of theirs. Then this morning I get an email from a pencil pusher at UPS to me and CC'ing contacts at Thomann that further forms need to be filled out. One of the forms was totally wrong. It was form for importing a wristwatch and certain materials that might be banned or whatever.

So I write to the person at UPS, and get a reply saying oops wrong form and then there's another form now called a Toxic Substance Control Act Declaration certifying there are no harmful chemical substances and. this must be filled out and returned to them before they'll ship my damned speakers to me which last I heard were in Kentucky. Also she mentioned there needed to be a TAX ID provided but no place for that on the one form she sent. So I mentioned that.

Also told her (Thomann people are CC'd on the email) that I'm just a guy trying to buy some speakers! That's all. But if this stuff needs to be filled out it must be done people people at Thomann and it's freakin 9pm in Germany so none of this crap is gonna happen until they get into the office... so I'm assuming my damned speakers which UPS app still shows being delivered today won't be delivered. I asked her if that was safe to assume and of course have not received any response!

ALL I WANTED TO DO WAS BUY SOME DAMNED SPEAKERS AND IT'S LIKE I'M GUN RUNNING OR SOMETHING!!!

I've never had to go through such hassle before.