XY Pad Controller for use with VIs? Audio Swift app opinions?

[James Steele]

Okay... so I bought a VI on sale called Biotek, and it has an area in it's UI where you can move the cursor along the X and Y axises (?) and manipulate the sound. See screen shot below. That was taken while it was running inside Komplete Kontrol, but kinda hard to twist two knobs while also holding a chord on a keyboard.

biotekinkk.gif (102.78 KiB) Viewed 1013 times

Naturally it's cumbersome to try and do that with a mouse. There must be dedicated pad controllers to do this that can send MIDI controller data to a VI like this? I have a nice large open flat area on top of my Komplete Kontrol S61 about 5" x 8" where something like this would fit. I could manipulate the sound with my left hand, while playing chords, etc. with my right.

Any recommendations?

I did do a preliminary search and came across an app called Audio Swift that apparently allows you to use a Magic Trackpad (older and new version I guess) for this purpose.

https://audioswiftapp.com/

Has anyone tried this. If it works as advertised that might be ideal... find a used Magic Trackpad 1 or whatever and put it on top of my keyboard and use that. Oddly, I guess I wouldn't necessarily even have to set it up for sending MIDI controller messages, but could use it just to move the cursor, but I think it would be "less messy" to use MIDI controller messages. Wouldn't have to worry about moving the mouse cursor off the XY area in the GUI, etc.

Any advice from those who have been down this road?

[James Steele]

Hmmm... this looks pretty slick. I think I see a Magic Track Pad and this app in my future:

[tremo]

I've been playing with AudioSwift a bit -- it's a bit fiddly to set up, but once that's done, it works very well. However, there's one stumbling block (from AudioSwift FAQ):

Why do the plugin windows disappear when turning on AudioSwift?

When AudioSwift is on, it becomes the key app on screen and the DAW loses its focus. This happens with Ableton Live, Bitwig Studio, Studio One and Cubase. The DAW hides all third party plugin windows when this happens. They come back when AudioSwift is turned off. Cubase is the only DAW of the four that has a workaround. Go to the top right of the plugin window, click the triangle and make sure Always on Top is unchecked.

I mostly use Studio One for writing, and this is a problem, to me anyway. If I'm trying to control two X-Y pads in Zebra for example, and the plugin window disappears, I find it disorienting. Which pad am I on now? Same thing for using 3 or 4 virtual faders to control Spitfire instruments. I don't think this issue is a deal breaker, and I'm sure I'll eventually, with practice, get used to controlling by feel alone.

I haven't tried AudioSwift with DP10, and (unfortunately, as usual) there's no mention of DP on the AudioSwift site. Maybe someone will chime in who's tested AudioSwift with DP11.

[James Steele]

I've been messing around with it a bit. I actually got it to work in Logic Pro on their Alchemy VI. I'm NOT a Logic Pro user, but got it as part of a bundle and have it around to mess with from time to time. LP seems to have universal MIDI Learn capability... well I guess maybe just with it's included VIs and I was able through the use of Audio Swift's tutorial video to map the Magic Track Pad 2 to control the X/Y controllers on Alchemy and it worked pretty well.

I bought a Magic Track Pad 2 last night and it arrived this morning. I'm using a Logtitech mouse to control my DAW software and after experimenting a little with the Magic Trackpad 2, I don't see that changing. So I'm using a mouse AND a Magic Track Pad 2 at the same time. So it's my intention to use it solely for sending select CC messages to virtual instruments for realtime manipulation of the sounds. I figure I can do that to some extent with my Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk2 keyboard, but it seems logical I could do more things with the pad than turning a knob on the keyboard.

My big stumbling block right now is with setting it up with Tracktion's Biotek VI. There's a big "Ring" control (which is basically a big X/Y type control) in the center of its UI, and for the life of me, I can't figure out how to assign MIDI CCs to it!! It's frustrating as hell and the manual is clear as mud on it. I messaged their tech support asking how to do it, so many I'll hear something Monday.

As far as losing focus, I'm not having a major problem with that in DP 11.11. It seems I can activate Audio Swift with the four finger tap and can use the Mac keyboard and use the old "Command + Tab" to bring the focus back to DP. And then if I want use "Command + `" to cycle through the open windows. So it's not bad. And it seems like I still have transport control from the Mac keyboard. Fortunately, I can also still control transport and several other things when DP is in the background with not only my MC Control + MC Mix, but thanks to MOTU's excellent support of the MIXER mode on the Komplete Kontrol series keyboards, I have transport control and much more (including fader and pan adjustments for all tracks) on the keyboard itself.

In my limited application for this... all I really want to be able to do is have the Magic Trackpad 2 sitting on my Komplete Kontrol keyboard (it fits perfectly on the flat area to the left) and really only use it on the rare occasions when I want to use the XY function when tracking a virtual instrument (or even adding it as automation later).

But like I said... I'm stuck right now. I got the Magic Track Pad specifically to use with this VI and it's no go. I don't think I have any others that use an XY controller... although X/Y can be any two controllers I want to manipulate at once, so I'm really hoping I will find something useful for this. Hoping I can map it to VIs inside of Komplete Kontrol as well hopefully, but not sure.

[James Steele]

I don't know if this will help you, but I found that if DP is the foreground app, and I'm careful to turn on Audio Swift by making sure I use all four fingers, DP stays in the foreground for me. But maybe that's because I'm using two pointing devices on the same Mac? Perhaps this doesn't work for laptop users?

[James Steele]

I don't know if this will help you, but I found that if DP is the foreground app, and I'm careful to turn on Audio Swift by making sure I use all four fingers, DP stays in the foreground for me. But maybe that's because I'm using two pointing devices on the same Mac? Perhaps this doesn't work for laptop users?

Ugh... nevermind.... I guess maybe DP's menus still stay up in the menu bar, but it does shift away. That said, Command + Tab seems to get you back to DP. What's frustrating to me is that if I move my mouse for any reason, it automatically turns off Audio Swift. I wish that had a preference. I wish Audio swift used the four finger tap as an absolute toggle. One four finger tap, it's on and stays on until another four finger tap.

[James Steele]

Geez... this is now frustrating as hell. Somehow I did managed to assign the X axis of the XY controller in Audio Swift to the volume of Sektor inside of DP, but now I can't do it again! I right clicked the volume knob of Sektor and enabled MIDI Learn and I think I activated Audio Swift somehow and assigned it. Now I can't. Crap. In theory I imagine it's possible that I could do use a different MIDI device (like my KK S61 keyboard) to send the same CC message during the MIDI learn setup, and then just use Audio Swift after that point.

In other words use a different controller device to send the same message for MIDI learn that you intend to use with Audio Swift. Arghh....

[James Steele]

EUREKA!!! PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

At least as far as Tracktion Biotek goes!

I was looking up various controllers and their meanings and I figured I'd just start twisting knobs on the Komplete Kontrol S61 in MIDI mode until I hit upon the controllers that MUST be assigned to the X and Y axises. Found them!!

Controller #16, defined as "General Purpose Slider 1" in the MIDI spec, controls the X axis
Controller #17, defined as "General Purpose Slider 2" in the MIDI spec, controls the Y axis

So I set up the Audio Swift XY controller like this:

Screen Shot 2022-09-10 at 2.23.29 PM.png (45.05 KiB) Viewed 927 times

... and BAM!! It works!! I now have a programmable XY pad (that can do other things that is wireless and sits right on top of my Komplete Kontrol S61. I can play a chord with my right hand and sweep around the XY grid to modulate the patch!! Sweet!! I bought the black Magic Trackpad 2 for aesthetics. Happy this works! Was afraid I had another return to Amazon coming.

magiconkk.jpg (77.47 KiB) Viewed 927 times

[James Steele]

I've been playing with AudioSwift a bit -- it's a bit fiddly to set up, but once that's done, it works very well. However, there's one stumbling block (from AudioSwift FAQ):

Why do the plugin windows disappear when turning on AudioSwift?

When AudioSwift is on, it becomes the key app on screen and the DAW loses its focus. This happens with Ableton Live, Bitwig Studio, Studio One and Cubase. The DAW hides all third party plugin windows when this happens. They come back when AudioSwift is turned off. Cubase is the only DAW of the four that has a workaround. Go to the top right of the plugin window, click the triangle and make sure Always on Top is unchecked.

Been messing with this some more tonight. A couple things I found help:

1) Set the window of the VI you're working with to be "Floating" and then it wont disappear when you do the 4 finger tap to activate AudioSwift.

2) This is only good if you have another pointer device, but there's an option "Enable trackpad to automatically turn Audio Swift on." If you check that box, and close the prefs and then choose "Restart AudioSwift"... after it restarts, the next device you activate with 4 fingers, will, from then on, immediately activate AudioSwift as soon as its surface is touched.

The last item there is ideal for me since I'm using a mouse AND a Magic Trackpad 2. I open up the VI and the second I touch the trackpad it is activates and starts sending MIDI CC. I touch the mouse and it deactivates.

I do wish for people who have TWO pointing devices (in my case, a mouse AND trackpad)... that the device used for AudioSwift would LOCK in activated mode even when I move the mouse. Although I suppose there's a chance it might send errant unwanted CC data from time to time if it were always on. Hi

[James Steele]

There’s now a version 2.3.2 that’s beta that fixes the issue of shifting focus away from the DAW.

[sayatnova]

Thank you for this info, James, it will be helpful to anyone else who wants to give this a go! Thank you for sharing your experience. Nice that it works! U-he synths often have XY controllers and I have thought about trying to set something up to play them, but never quite got there. This is moving me closer...