VEP - Vienna Ensemble Pro - What do you have to buy?

[magnas]

Hello everybody, after several attemps with my new MacBook Pro i9 with 32 GB of RAM, I think that the best way for optimize the project and the RAM/CPU usage is using VEP in my project (a lot of user gave me this advice from years).

I was on the VSL page, and I saw a lot of products... maybe too much

I simple need a VEP container where put all my AU virtual instrument. I don't need the orchestral sound. What do I've to buy???

Thanks everybody

[FMiguelez]

Just get VEP7.

You'll be blown away. It's a work of art. It really changed the way I work.

It may or it may not include free added instruments for their library. If you just want it for managing what you already have, that'll work as great too. But make sure you check out any possibly included stuff in there!

[bayswater]

Does VEP do anything useful if you don't use their instruments and only run on one computer?

[FMiguelez]

Does VEP do anything useful if you don't use their instruments and only run on one computer?

Definitely, for Tlaloc's sake!

While that would mean using a lot less than its real available power, the advantage is still that you host every VI you have (and possibly plugins, using VEP7 as an effects "send") from this single great environment, which then in turn you control from DP's chunks.
It takes control over everything about CPU for you. Sending audio, MIDI CCs, anything, is just great. All your VIs live in the server that belongs for the specific project. ALL your settings for all VIs are then saved as part of the Server Project, and/or as part of a DP V-Rack chunk itself, so all that info is safely stored in there.
You can have your FULL template enchilada Server project always opened and ready, and you can selectively choose what is loaded or unloaded at any given time, so RAM management becomes almost a non-issue.

You can also change chunks and projects as you wish, and you don't have to reload anything, since it can stay opened and fully loaded, which is specially great if you work from a template.

If you have an old computer laying around, and it still can run VEP7, you can easily incorporate it as a slave-Software-rack into your workflow, and ease some of your main computer's CPU power this way. This is how I survive, with a Mac Mini (and iMac) farm of currently 5 computers.

The GUI is awesome. It's a pleasure to even look at it, since it invites (at least for me) you to compose...

I think it's free to try out. Check it out, Bays. If you use LOTS of VIs and MIDI programming for your music, I just don't understand how anyone could live without it. It's that good.

And if you add their instruments to the equation, well... Hapiness to produce music
So yes. I rave about this software. Just so see how FAR they've come since its inception is truly inspiring...

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Different strokes for different folks!

...you host every VI you have (and possibly plugins, using VEP7 as an effects "send") from this single great environment...

Or what i call a DP Project

...you control from DP's chunks...

Or what I call DP

It takes control over everything about CPU for you. Sending audio, MIDI CCs, anything, is just great. All your VIs live in the server that belongs for the specific project. ALL your settings for all VIs are then saved as part of the Server Project, and/or as part of a DP V-Rack chunk itself, so all that info is safely stored in there.

What I call a V-Rack

You can have your FULL template enchilada Server project always opened and ready, and you can selectively choose what is loaded or unloaded at any given time, so RAM management becomes almost a non-issue.

What I call a coffee break... lol

You can also change chunks and projects as you wish, and you don't have to reload anything, since it can stay opened and fully loaded, which is specially great if you work from a template.

I always start from scratch on every project. No preconceived notions on how my creativity is being utilized.

If you have an old computer laying around, and it still can run VEP7, you can easily incorporate it as a slave-Software-rack into your workflow, and ease some of your main computer's CPU power this way. This is how I survive, with a Mac Mini (and iMac) farm of currently 5 computers.

I don't even have a response for that. I can do everything in my little old Mac Pro trash can. "

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." da Vinci

The GUI is awesome. It's a pleasure to even look at it, since it invites (at least for me) you to compose...

I don't find looking as important as playing and listening, but that's just me.

I think it's free to try out. Check it out, Bays. If you use LOTS of VIs and MIDI programming for your music, I just don't understand how anyone could live without it. It's that good.

How'd I ever making a living composing over the last 50 years without it?

[mikehalloran]

As for the Master/Slave arrangement, if you need to go there, you'll know. Might not be necessary with an i9 MBP and 2TB storage under the hood.

Speaking of that i9, it has 10G Ethernet, right? If yes, forget Master/Slave. You can link additional Macs through the T2 chip and a Cat6/6a/7 cable to combine horsepower as long as those Macs have 10GBe. According to Apple, 1G Ethernet Minis can't do this.

At the 2018 WWDC, Apple was demonstrating stacks of 5, 10 & 20 linked Minis working on single AV files. Since the MacPro 7.1, they don't talk about this anymore.

[bayswater]

I guess there are some differing opinions on the use of VEP. I certainly don't need slave computers to get enough CPU for what I do. And I don't have that many instances where I use the same set of VRacks etc across multiple projects. But the overall setup looks elegant. If I have a moment away from paying deferred taxes, I'll try the demo. Thanks for the details FM.

[labman]

Speaking of that i9, it has 10G Ethernet, right? If yes, forget Master/Slave. You can link additional Macs through the T2 chip and a Cat6/6a/7 cable to combine horsepower as long as those Macs have 10GBe. According to Apple, 1G Ethernet Minis can't do this.

Mike, so you mean a direct 10G connection without using VEP?

[mikehalloran]

Speaking of that i9, it has 10G Ethernet, right? If yes, forget Master/Slave. You can link additional Macs through the T2 chip and a Cat6/6a/7 cable to combine horsepower as long as those Macs have 10GBe. According to Apple, 1G Ethernet Minis can't do this.

Mike, so you mean a direct 10G connection without using VEP?

No. I mean using VEP without going Master/Slave but it can also mean simply hosting your VIs in a more robust environment.

Master/Slave isn’t the need it used to be as base stations become a lot more powerful but, for many (some?) users, it is. You won’t really get that impression on the VEP user boards where they seem to talk about little else. Lots of talk about building custom PCs to be VEP slaves etc. No thanks.

One of Apple’s feature boasts about the MP 7.1 is that you’ll never need a slave machine to handle your VIs. No, they don’t actually state VEP but there’s no doubt about what they mean.

You don’t need a MB 7.1 for this or a slave machine if you have a T2 10GBe Mac that doesn’t handle the extra load very well. Add a 10GBe Mini to increase the horsepower instead. Anyway, this ability to expand is why I recommend the 10GBe option to anyone thinking about buying a Mini. BTW, the new 2020 27” iMac has a T2 and can be ordered with 10GBe.

I’m not fully versed in how this all works since Apple is pushing the MP 7.1 over linked Minis these days. Every time I wait for SampleTank 4 to rebuild its index or Komplete to finish loading something, I wonder if I shouldn’t be considering this—not for more processing power but to have immediate access to my VIs. In my case, an 8TB TB3 storage option might work as well. I dunno. With the Mini having only 2TB max storage, I'd need more than one — yikes.

What I really want is an upgraded iMac Pro with 8TB onboard — but what if that never happens? Exploring the options… A 2020 27" iMac 10 Core with 8TB onboard would set me back a little over $6k including 128G RAM from OWC but I really like the superior cooling and GPU of my iMac Pro. Going from 14 to 10 Core is unlikely to be an issue, however.

[Michael Canavan]

Hello everybody, after several attemps with my new MacBook Pro i9 with 32 GB of RAM, I think that the best way for optimize the project and the RAM/CPU usage is using VEP in my project (a lot of user gave me this advice from years).

I was on the VSL page, and I saw a lot of products... maybe too much

I simple need a VEP container where put all my AU virtual instrument. I don't need the orchestral sound. What do I've to buy???

Thanks everybody

So there are a few reasons to use VEP. The main one is for servers, using more than one computer with a Slave machine wired over ethernet.

The second reason is for the types of situation you're describing here, CPU performance on a perfectly reliable machine is wonky in your preferred DAW. This can be for a number of reasons, so it's good to look into that first before buying more software. All the typical but maybe not to you things to think about.
First off, open the Effect Performance window and see what is eating up CPU, is it in RT or PG? You can do things to fix that. It's also possible it's just a PIG of a VST/AU, a couple plug ins on my system are just huge hogs compared to others, and that can be relived by VEP.

VEP is slightly better optimized to deal with CPU pigs, literally all it does is host plug ins, no tracks, nothing but a mixer. Spiking and piggish plug ins can be hosted there with a relatively easier experience than in DP. Just think about it for a second, a 90% or more CPU reading in VEP does not translate to a sluggish experience in DP10, the VEP plug in is lite, and DP stays agile.

Now for me, since I mostly do rock and electronic music, I end up just dealing with it. I just haven't gotten around to setting up a template of common VSTi's I use in VEP, I've been doing it with orchestral stuff, but not really with synth and other more flexible in my set up stuff.

VEP is fantastic, whether it's worth the extra layer of complexity is another story only you can answer, but for the most part adding another application, whether on the same computer or not, is always going to be a more complex setup, so it should be a concern if you're experiencing unsolvable problems, or you really like having a lightweight fast DAW with VEP taking all the heavy lifting away. That's of course a great reason to use it.

[labman]

Mike, so you mean a direct 10G connection without using VEP?

No. I mean using VEP without going Master/Slave but it can also mean simply hosting your VIs in a more robust environment.
<snip>[/quote]

Oh ! Since we have two 10G macs, that was one of my thoughts. But I seem to recall Paul at Vienna telling us earlier this year to not use 10G with VEP, since it pulls down the CPU more, so we bailed on that idea. I don't recall the details though. It was on the VEP forum.

[Michael Canavan]

As for the Master/Slave arrangement, if you need to go there, you'll know. Might not be necessary with an i9 MBP and 2TB storage under the hood.

Speaking of that i9, it has 10G Ethernet, right? If yes, forget Master/Slave. You can link additional Macs through the T2 chip and a Cat6/6a/7 cable to combine horsepower as long as those Macs have 10GBe. According to Apple, 1G Ethernet Minis can't do this.

At the 2018 WWDC, Apple was demonstrating stacks of 5, 10 & 20 linked Minis working on single AV files. Since the MacPro 7.1, they don't talk about this anymore.

This looks promising, but I've never heard anyone talk about doing this with real time audio streaming. There's a huge difference between rendering movie and animation files and what we do. I would love to be proven wrong, but I can't think of a single person that's hooked up two computers using the latest ethernet protocols and had extra horsepower in their set up.

On the other hand, in 2009 Logic was able to link two computers and use the extra horsepower to run it's own embedded plug ins on the "slave" mac. [it's now depreciated tech, dropped years ago] None of this is impossible, it's just whether there's a demand. VEP works great, that's the problem, the solution is not that expensive.

[bayswater]

I have use an ethernet connection to 1) use a UAD card in one computer as an effect in another, and 2) to use EXS24 instruments not available as AU plugins on one computer using DP on another (as per the post elsewhere on how to use Logic drummer in DP, but on another computer.) In both cases, I had to measure round trip latency and use AU delay on channels not taking the trip. Whether I had more net CPU power, I don't know.