Best way to align/sync video to recorded audio

[schmargle]

Hi there.

What is the best way to align or sync a movie to recorded audio within DP?

Let's say I've recorded 8 tracks of drums to a click in DP. I've also shot a video of the same performance. Once I've imported the video to my computer, I open it from within the DP project.

Then I use Set Movie Start Time to try to get it to the right place. But it's really a pain. I essentially have to add or subtract frames or "timecode bits" and listen until everything sounds about right.

It would really be excellent if I could open the movie within DP, import the movie audio, and then just manually drag the movie (and its audio) so that I can visually align it with the recorded audio. But I can't do that with DP, correct?

Part of the problem (but a smaller one) is that the movie and its audio aren't free-floating on the timeline. They can only be moved by frames (or maybe some sub-frame measurement)—is that correct? Sometimes I get to a point where it's really close to where I want it, but I cannot quite line it up perfectly, as I could if I were just nudging or dragging audio.

Now, I know I could move my recorded audio to the movie, but if I've recorded to a click, I'd rather not do that. And I could also just do the alignment in my video editing software, but I like to see the video when I'm mixing the audio.

When I do this process in another DAW, which shall remain nameless (OK, it's Logic), I can drag the movie on the timeline and even do some basic trimming of the start and end of the movie within the timeline. Is there no way to do any of that within DP?

Also (or instead): Is there a way to prepare a DP project ahead of time to make any of this easier?

Thanks.

[mikehalloran]

It would really be excellent if I could open the movie within DP, import the movie audio, and then just manually drag the movie (and its audio) so that I can visually align it with the recorded audio. But I can't do that with DP, correct?

Any video editor can do that.

For quick 'n dirty where that's all I'm doing, Adobe Premiere Elements is my go-to. Takes a couple minutes once you get the hang of it. Then there's the rendering time...

[schmargle]

That works if you're OK with mixing first. But I'd like to be able to watch the video as I'm mixing. For example, I might want to make an edit in a drum recording, but I'd only do it if it's not noticeable on video.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I'm not sure I understand the issue completely. Mike is right, any video editing app can move the image and audio, but it can be a PITA to do precise audio editing in a video app.

Here's my suggestion:

Once the video is locked, IOW YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO MOVE THE VIDEO AROUND (which is NOT the way to do audio edits, BTW) import the video to DP. Import the movie audio. Play with your other audio. Export the movie from DP.

Done What else are you trying to do? I'm not understanding the part about your wanting to move the video around when doing audio edits. DP is not a video editor. Final Cut sucks at audio editing.

[FMiguelez]

When I do this process in another DAW, which shall remain nameless (OK, it's Logic), I can drag the movie on the timeline and even do some basic trimming of the start and end of the movie within the timeline. Is there no way to do any of that within DP?

In DP you can certainly play with the movie start time and chunk start times, but you can't drag it around 'cause you'd loose sync. If you want that, I think there's an item in the movie mini menu where you can unlock the movie and free it from the timeline.
I've no idea if that would work for you or why you want to approach it like that, but IME, for syncing music, doing that sounds to me like a nightmare waiting to happen.

[schmargle]

Thanks, all, for the responses.

I think I'm not making myself entirely clear...which might mean that this is not a typical workflow.

I like to mix multi-track recordings in DP while watching the video that corresponds to that audio. So the question is, is there an alternative way to sync the video with that multi-track audio—a way that does not involve using the Set Movie Start Time feature?

Another (similar) scenario: Let's say you're making the next great concert film. You've got a rough cut of the movie, and you want to boost the volume of particular tracks when certain players are on screen—a guitarist walks up to center stage and you want to boost the volume just a little of that guitarist. You'd need to have a multi-track mix open while watching the movie. And of course, they'd need to be perfectly in sync.

You could experiment with the Set Movie Start Time until everything is aligned, but it would be great if there were an easier way.

I'll try to figure out how to show a screen shot...

[schmargle]

Alright, well, it looks like this...

http://www.schmarglepop.com/gregthomas/temp/temp_DP.png

[MIDI Life Crisis]

DP will playback the movie you provide. It will start and stop it anywhere you want. If you want to cut in audio, you need to do that visually, or if your setup is a little more sophisticated, with the timestamp on the audio t match the time on the video. I always do it visually, usually matching waveforms in the sequence window.

You cannot easily slide the movie around in DP as you can in a video editor, which is why in my earlier post i suggested having a locked video. If that isn't possible, then I'm not sure how to help.

[schmargle]

OK, so how do you visually match the waveforms in the sequence window? That's exactly what I want to do, but I'm hoping to move the video audio (and the video with it) rather than the multi-track audio.

I think I'll also have to learn what it means to have locked video. I thought you meant that the audio captured with the camera should be locked to the video captured with the camera—I agree, and I'd never unlock that. But if there's a way to lock the multi-track audio to the camera video, that would be even better, and I could avoid this sync'ing later. I just haven't learned how to do that yet.

[HCMarkus]

Move the multi-track audio in DP, align with the video and its audio.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

... I'm hoping to move the video audio (and the video with it)...

You're trying to sync the video to the audio? You cannot do that in DP. You can, awkwardly, in video editing apps.

You seem to be reluctant to move the multi-track. Why? What's the big deal in moving that?

BTW, locked video (usually referred to as locked picture) means the visuals will not change and other post operations (usually sound) can depend on the timing not being altered. Of course, in the real world, that's a fallacy. Directors and producers are fickle creatures and don't always like to play by the rules.

Speaking of playing by the rules. You either have to stop thinking of the multi track recording as unmovable, or prepare yourself for a world of pain.

[schmargle]

Move the multi-track audio in DP, align with the video and its audio.

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to avoid. If I move the multi-track audio, then it will no longer be aligned to the grid and click, which can make comping, editing, and mixing the audio more difficult.

Maybe what I want to do is just not possible (yet) in DP.

[schmargle]

You either have to stop thinking of the multi track recording as unmovable, or prepare yourself for a world of pain.

Ha! Yeah, exactly.

I've only mixed sound for one film—it was in DP, and the experience was VERY painful for similar reasons. The director kept making edits and asking me then to revise my mix. In that case, I was willing to move the multi-track audio, but I still had to visually align waveforms with the new video I'd receive. I kept thinking: "This can't be how professionals actually do this."

So maybe I have to try to Google more about how professional sound editors do all this. ...Or just use Logic, which does allow you to shift the movie more easily on the timeline, though you're still constrained to moving by frames (or some kind of subframes) rather than samples.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Just break up the multi track into manageable bits and edit the damn thing, already! Bounce the sections you want to add or just copy and paste them into the proper place. You should be able to patch up the waveforms easily. Again, import the video audio so you can see it. Open it in the sequence window, paste or import the segment in question, and do you crossfades, edits, etc.

I'm just not understanding why you can't do that. Is the time line on the multi track different (longer?) that the video? Why doesn't it just sit in one with it now? there's a piece of your puzzle that is missing.

Fess up! lol

[HCMarkus]

Move the multi-track audio in DP, align with the video and its audio.

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to avoid. If I move the multi-track audio, then it will no longer be aligned to the grid and click, which can make comping, editing, and mixing the audio more difficult.

Maybe what I want to do is just not possible (yet) in DP.

Sorry, missed that point in your initial post.

Howabout this: Drag music to the nearest beat, use conductor track for tempo/meter, set correct tempo/meter at downbeat, then play with tempo/meter before the music starts until you line it up. Kludgey, but doable.