Finally time for a new computer soon: Mac MIni?

[plum]

I am running an old iMac which I can not believe still works as well as it does. AS a matter if fact I have been running an external ssd as my operating system drive because the internal drive was shot over 10 years ago. Mike was nice enough to recommend how easy it is to replace that drive but since I have not been recording very seriously for the last several years, and I planned on getting new computer soon, that why chance damaging the computer while I do not have a back-up to play Scrabble with my Mom every night at 9: VT to FL...

... My plan was/is to keep this computer maybe even as a keyboard station to play Virtual Instruments into my new Mac Mini DP set up. But, for all I know after this many years the latency on a new computer will be so little that there might be a better use of an early 2008 iMac? I also always liked the idea of pairing 2 computers!

Sorry to get to the point, it looks like the best value, since I am not getting into serious video work anytime soon -- and I am not a gamer -- is to get a Mac Mini and a 32 inch curved monitor instead of another iMac? The large screen would allow a bit less window swapping when using plugins etc. And obviously even a 27 inch iMac with the same computing power as a equivalent Mac Mini would be twice the $.

[mothra]

Mine should be here Thursday. Im on a 2010 Mac Pro, and the latest Logic Pro update went from my machine not even blinking to choking running a 20 track mix with a Plugin Alliance channel strip on each track.

I went between an iMac and the Mini and the Mini was just the better value for me, and I like having the number of thunderbolt and USB A ports swapped on the Mini. Already have an Oyen 2 bay USB C enclosure up and running with my audio drives, its working great with the Pro even. Too bad its going to cost me $100 just for cables to actually run my 828x as Thunderbolt. Eventually getting a GPU since I DO play games on here occasionally, and I spent money on a Radeon RX570 just to keep my Mac Pro afloat which got cut off immediately afterwards. Thats coming way later though, I may end up jumping ship from Logic to Cubase so I can stay fairly Apple free if I need to. Haven't been happy with Tim Cook's vision of Apple so its time I start looking at moving on.

[HCMarkus]

I spent money on a Radeon RX570 just to keep my Mac Pro afloat which got cut off immediately afterwards.

What happened?

[mothra]

I spent money on a Radeon RX570 just to keep my Mac Pro afloat which got cut off immediately afterwards.

What happened?

Well I think most of us ran out and bought those cards hoping we would get more than just Mojave support but its EOL for the Mac Pro 2010...

[bayswater]

Sorry to get to the point, it looks like the best value, since I am not getting into serious video work anytime soon -- and I am not a gamer -- is to get a Mac Mini and a 32 inch curved monitor instead of another iMac? The large screen would allow a bit less window swapping when using plugins etc. And obviously even a 27 inch iMac with the same computing power as a equivalent Mac Mini would be twice the $.

I got a new i7 Mini and a 32" (fast) monitor to replace a 2009 iMac. I did my own RAM upgrade to 32G. Not easy but can possible. I'm quite happy with it. One thing you want to think about is the graphics. While it's fine for day to day computing and DAWs etc, it doesn't do full screen 4/5K video edits at 60 or 120 fps well. I've noticed an improvement in graphic performance with Mojave updates over the past year or so, but it's not exactly a high end gaming machine. If that's something you need, you can get an external GPU and run it off the TB3 ports, but then you might end up spending the same or less by getting a new iMac with more or less the same specs.

I also thought about keeping the iMac as a slave, but as I discovered when I went to the iMac from a G5, the increase in overall computing power and capacity for effects and VIs is so significant, it wasn't worth the bother. It doesn't feel right to just dump the old equipment, but it's difficult to come up with a real use for it.

[mothra]

I also thought about keeping the iMac as a slave, but as I discovered when I went to the iMac from a G5, the increase in overall computing power and capacity for effects and VIs is so significant, it wasn't worth the bother. It doesn't feel right to just dump the old equipment, but it's difficult to come up with a real use for it.

I still have my blue and white G3, and a 350Mhz G4 in use as Sound Diver machines when my VirtualBox setup gives me grief hehe. If I could only find my old Adaptec 2906 Id be using these things with Recycle hooked up to my E6400 Ultra as well, but thats working fine with a SCSI2SD for now..

[mikehalloran]

Sorry to get to the point, it looks like the best value, since I am not getting into serious video work anytime soon -- and I am not a gamer -- is to get a Mac Mini and a 32 inch curved monitor instead of another iMac? The large screen would allow a bit less window swapping when using plugins etc. And obviously even a 27 inch iMac with the same computing power as a equivalent Mac Mini would be twice the $.

I got a new i7 Mini and a 32" (fast) monitor to replace a 2009 iMac. I did my own RAM upgrade to 32G. Not easy but can possible. I'm quite happy with it. One thing you want to think about is the graphics. While it's fine for day to day computing and DAWs etc, it doesn't do full screen 4/5K video edits at 60 or 120 fps well. I've noticed an improvement in graphic performance with Mojave updates over the past year or so, but it's not exactly a high end gaming machine. If that's something you need, you can get an external GPU and run it off the TB3 ports, but then you might end up spending the same or less by getting a new iMac with more or less the same specs.

I also thought about keeping the iMac as a slave, but as I discovered when I went to the iMac from a G5, the increase in overall computing power and capacity for effects and VIs is so significant, it wasn't worth the bother. It doesn't feel right to just dump the old equipment, but it's difficult to come up with a real use for it.

My 2¢

Put a priority on onboard storage. Unlike RAM, it's not expensive for what you get. The only external to consider for running projects is the Samsung X5 and upgrading the internal at purchase costs the same (funny how that works). Not only is it nearly as fast but the Mini treats it as a second internal drive. Buy 1TB or 2TB upfront.

Besides being 1/6 the speed of the internal, USB SSDs can go to sleep on you. No big deal if a VI or sample drive–you wont't get sound but unplugging and re-plugging hot will fix you up. If you have an active project on it, you'll get the dreaded -2, -37, -41 errors which means your project just crashed. Don't be those guys on the FB page. That 1/6 speed is fine for archival, VIs and samples.

RAM from Apple is too expensive. $1,000 to upgrade to 64GB vs $367 at OWC. Even if you pay someone to install it ($75 around here), you're still better off.

Spend the extra $100 for 10G Ethernet. If you later decide you need more Mac, you can link another Mac with a T2 chip and 10G Ethernet to make a single very powerful machine. Per Apple, the Mini must be 10G (all other T2 Macs are already 10G)

LG makes the iMac screens. 5K requires TB3. 4K will hook up but you'll need an inexpensive adapter if the monitor doesn't support USB-C ($8 on amazon). USB-C monitors pass through the port which may eliminate a hub.
https://www.lg.com/us/4k-monitors

What Bays says about GPU/eGPU. If that's going to be an issue, consider going to an iMac Pro. Base model: 8 core faster processor and bus, 32GB RAM, 1TB RAID 0 SSD pair, 4 USB 3 ports instead of 2, 5K display, massive cooling fans and a much better GPU than the eGPU offered by Apple. Always in stock for $4,249 in the Refurb Store (dirty little secret—Apple's way of lowering the price without actually lowering the price).
https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac/imac-pro

Mine has a pair of 27" 4K side monitors side but it supports 5K if I'd wanted to spend the extra dough for the do-re-mi.

[mikehalloran]

The WWDC is next week. You might want to hold off till then before purchase.

Unless there's an actual redesign, about the only update to the iMac Pro or Mini will likely be a storage boost (4TB Mini; 8TB iMP). Rumored but, when that happens, the Refurb Store gets flooded with Apple Store returns to make way for the newer version and there may be bargains.

[bayswater]

Put a priority on onboard storage. Unlike RAM, it's not expensive for what you get. The only external to consider for running projects is the Samsung X5 and upgrading the internal at purchase costs the same (funny how that works). Not only is it nearly as fast but the Mini treats it as a second internal drive. Buy 1TB or 2TB upfront.

I have to say I remain unconvinced on this point. On the Mini an external TB3 SSD can be as fast as the internal, and one reviewer found it to be even faster. He also put the OS on a TB3 external and reported it worked as well as the internal. Clearly a slow drive will be slower but that's not a necessary outcome.

At the point I bought the Mini, an external 1T was about 1/3 the cost of the Apple upgrade to 1T. I understand that is not longer the case.

I've had no issues with drives sleeping. I understand there are some aspect of backup in new TM versions that are more convenient with one large drive, and that external drives or multiple drives present few of the advantages they once did when running sample based VIs. But neither of these are significant in my case. I've never had excessive waits for file copies or moves. (one exception, when I tested Catalina on a separate volume, and it decided to be helpful and update all my libraries it could find so they were no longer compatible with Mojave. An overnight TM restore was required.)

When I bought my Mini, I anticipated wanting drives in the 10-15TB range over the life of the computer, and this was simply impractical, meaning I was going to be relying on externals for the foreseeable future anyway. Along with TB3, and the ability to use Volumes rather than Partitions, I decided the need for a large internal drive was less important now than it was in the past.

At this point, I have a small internal drive with the OS and Apps (that is about 40% full), external SSDs (Samsung X5s) for samples and media, and external USB 3 spinners I already had for backup and for inactive DP and Logic projects. All of this has worked transparently and without issue for 1.5 years. When SSD prices drop, I might get a large one to replace the spinners and the smaller SSDs I have now.

[mikehalloran]

Put a priority on onboard storage. Unlike RAM, it's not expensive for what you get. The only external to consider for running projects is the Samsung X5 and upgrading the internal at purchase costs the same (funny how that works). Not only is it nearly as fast but the Mini treats it as a second internal drive. Buy 1TB or 2TB upfront.

I have to say I remain unconvinced on this point. On the Mini an external TB3 SSD can be as fast as the internal, and one reviewer found it to be even faster. He also put the OS on a TB3 external and reported it worked as well as the internal...

Re-read what I actually wrote. You and I do not disagree on this. The X5 is about the same price as upgrading the storage new. On a Mini, it performs about the same. On an iMac Pro, a little slower but not that anyone would notice.

I wasn’t talking about you. It’s those who believe that they can get away with a small internal and run their projects on USB externals.

At the point I bought the Mini, an external 1T was about 1/3 the cost of the Apple upgrade to 1T. I understand that is not longer the case.

Correct. That happened July 2019. Now, a Mini with 1TB onboard costs A little less than 512GB internal + a 512GB X5.

I've had no issues with drives sleeping. ...

USB? I have which is why I went to a TB2 dock for my two SATA III SSDs (8TB total). Again, reread what I actually wrote. Those who complain about the minus errors (-2 etc.) are running their projects on USB externals. Every one of them. They’re fine for VIs as I mentioned.

[bayswater]

I've had no issues with drives sleeping. ...

USB?

Yes, USB 3 drives now, via a USB 3 hum on a TB3 port. Not used as active drives during a project. The only time I ever get any sort of delay is when I go to the TM drive which is one of these.

[stubbsonic]

The WWDC is next week. You might want to hold off till then before purchase.

Rumored but, when that happens, the Refurb Store gets flooded with Apple Store returns to make way for the newer version and there may be bargains.

Typically how long after the WWDC would those bargains start to appear?

[mikehalloran]

The WWDC is next week. You might want to hold off till then before purchase.

Rumored but, when that happens, the Refurb Store gets flooded with Apple Store returns to make way for the newer version and there may be bargains.

Typically how long after the WWDC would those bargains start to appear?

The week that whatever was announced starts shipping.

[plum]

Hey thanks a lot for the activity seems my notification of thread was not 'on'. I forgot to mention at least when I had my G4 -- the ability to port it out a wall left me a bit quieter for acoustic guitar recording! With an external Monitor one of the benefits?

Unfortunately some of the discussion here seems out of my comfort zone and... out of my price range.

But maybe some eduction to glean between the lines... Not to hijack my own thread but I am just a guy running a home studio hoping maybe to one day score a licensing deal for a couple of thousand dollars one day. That would be success! Basically I need to be able to record generally not more than 24 tracks with multiple instances of Melodyne and Izotope, and Several Virtual Instruments, like three, some keyboard sounds and some drums. I can't really do this now with my set up. Just trying to play Virtual Drums with my Ableton Push at 128 -- which is tolerable latency for me I suppose -- would only really work well if I suspend any effects and pugs while doing so.

That said, I'd like to think your basic entry level $1000 Mac Mini would be an improvement of 10 fold in terms of computing power from my Early 2008 iMac?

[HCMarkus]

I'd like to think your basic entry level $1000 Mac Mini would be an improvement of 10 fold in terms of computing power from my Early 2008 iMac?

Scanning Geekbench 5 scores, for which your computer is not listed, you may not be far off... I'd wild guess about six times the computing power, but don't know enough about your computer to provide a solid estimate.