5.1 mixing questions: buses, joysticks

[larrytheo]

I am converting some stereo mix sessions to 5.1 for surround mixing and am coming up with some questions and behavior I don't quite understand.

I'm trying to do submixing that doesn't seem to be working. I created a 5.1 bus and assigned it as the input to an aux fader, with the output of the aux channel routed to the master 5.1 output, which has its own master fader. A mono or stereo source is audible when assigned directly to the master output, but not when routed to the submix bus and fader. There is signal on the source channel's meter, but not on the aux fader's meter. Any idea what's going on with this?

Also, can anyone suggest a decent joystick that works with DP? Spring-loaded game joysticks seem inconvenient and neither robust nor very precise. Is there something a cut above those but not really high-end priced?

[larrytheo]

Is there any app that would let me use an iPad to do surround panning in DP?

[magicd]

For iPad check out: https://neyrinck.com/v-control-pro/applications/

I don't know if that app does any form of surround control.

Create a 5.1 Output bundle in the bundles window. Assign the channels in the bundle to your surround monitor outs. Create a Master Fader track and assign it to the 5.1 Output bundle.

Stereo audio tracks can be assigned directly to the 5.1 output bundle (and 5.1 Master Fader). If you want to use subgroups (Aux tracks) you can do that also. Create a 5.1 channel bus in the bundles window. Assign the stereo track output to the 5.1 bus. Assign the 5.1 bus to the input of an Aux track. Assign the output of the Aux track to the 5.1 Output bundle.

When the output of the stereo audio track is assigned to a 5.1 destination (bus or directly to output) a surround panner is created on the output of the stereo track. From that panner you have many options as to how to handle the left and right signals of the stereo track going to the 5.1 output.

Dave

[Don T]

Hello,
I ended up with a Kensington Track ball mouse and just stick a suction cup dart as a handle onto the ball. It doesn't self center but works pretty good for a quick automation write. Other than that solution I have found little success in finding an inexpensive joystick. I thought about making one with mouse parts.

Hey there MagicD, nice to see you lurking here...

[magicd]

I ended up with a Kensington Track ball mouse and just stick a suction cup dart as a handle onto the ball. It doesn't self center but works pretty good for a quick automation write.

Now that is creative engineering!

Dave

[JSmith1234567]

Hello,
I ended up with a Kensington Track ball mouse and just stick a suction cup dart as a handle onto the ball. It doesn't self center but works pretty good for a quick automation write. Other than that solution I have found little success in finding an inexpensive joystick. I thought about making one with mouse parts.

Hey there MagicD, nice to see you lurking here...

Wow! I'ver been looking for a solution for that for years, and there it is!

and simple!

I actually wanted one that would NOT self-centere, and could not find anything under a few hundred dollars.

Thanks!

[larrytheo]

Still struggling with this. I tried what was suggested for subgrouping and it's not working:
1) Created a 5.1 output master assigned to my 5.1 monitoring system. This works fine: mono or stereo tracks can be assigned to this output, surround panners are instantiated on those tracks, I can pan them and they are audible through the 5.1 master output.

2) Created a 5.1 bus in the Bundles window.

3) Created an Aux track, assigned the 5.1 bus as input and the 5.1 master output as output. It instantiates a 5.1 pan display on the aux channel, but fixed with a full blue circle, that is, no panning is allowed because it is a 5.1-to-5.1 channel. This makes sense, but no fader shows up on the aux channel, and mono or stereo tracks assigned to the bus show level on the source track, but not the aux channel, and there is no audio from the aux channel to the 5.1 master output. Tried fooling around for quite a while and can't suss out why this isn't working.

Also, I can't figure out what parameter to automate if I want to automate surround panning, even just using the mouse (as it happens, I, too, use a Kensington trackball). I'm sure I'm just not spotting the parameter I want in the rather long list of automatable parameters for the, in this case, Tri-Pan. Suggestions?

I spoke to MOTU briefly at NAMM, and they basically said that people author in surround in DP, but nobody actually mixes in surround in DP. I guess they know their customer base (especially the relatively small group doing surround work), but *I* want to mix in surround in DP, so I am struggling with this.

Lastly, surround aside, are people successfully using V-Control with DP? In plain old stereo work, does it function well in anyone's experience? I record myself often and it is a royal pain not having remote control. One mistake in a performance and I have to walk over to the computer to stop recording, undo, go back to the top, and try again. I'd REALLY like a remote control.

Thanks!

[Don T]

Hello,
I haven't tried this with DP10 but it worked in 9.5 last spring. Make sure you are not using the same buses. Bus 1-6 for master 5.1, 7 - 12 for aux 5.1.

I'll try this later when I get back to the studio.

[dix]

...This makes sense, but no fader shows up on the aux channel, and mono or stereo tracks assigned to the bus show level on the source track, but not the aux channel, and there is no audio from the aux channel to the 5.1 master output. Tried fooling around for quite a while and can't suss out why this isn't working..

Hmm. I'm not sure what's going here. The only time I've seen the fader disappear is when the output is illegal and/or the channel isn't Enabled. Can you get other non-bussed tracks to output from the same 5.1 master output that the 5.1 aux can not? Can you instantiate plugins in the faderless 5.1 aux?

I spoke to MOTU briefly at NAMM, and they basically said that people author in surround in DP, but nobody actually mixes in surround in DP. I guess they know their customer base (especially the relatively small group doing surround work), but *I* want to mix in surround in DP, so I am struggling with this.

I'm not nobody (exactly) and I mix plenty in 5.1. Have for a long time. ...anyway, how do you author without mixing?

[larrytheo]

It has to be a problem in that particular session, because I just opened a different 5.1 session and subgrouping is working just fine. OK, another round of troubleshooting. <sigh> fortunately, the session with a problem happens to be a fairly sparse session and I was able to get a mix without using subgroups, while the one in which subgrouping is working is the sfx session with a lot going on. There's that.
Still want to figure out how to automate panning through the 5.1 field and find out whether V-Control is working for people.

[dix]

It's never happened to me, but I have heard tell of specific busses mysteriously, inexplicably "going bad" in a DP project. Maybe you're a victim of that phenomena.

Still want to figure out how to automate panning through the 5.1 field and find out whether V-Control is working for people.

I'm not sure I understand. If you mean, how to automate panning with DP, simply Record Enabling automation and moving the puck on the channel will move the output around the 5 speakers. I'm unfamiliar with V-Control, if you're wondering how to automate 5.1 panning with that. Sry.

[larrytheo]

I find it difficult to move the puck with any finesse using a mouse. Even with a trackball it's hard to get good control, for me, at any rate, and the panner seems only to respond to HUI control - but maybe I haven't dug deep enough on that and I may turn out to be wrong. However, I did find a solution. I have the Waves 360 bundle, and I can insert the S360 panner on a channel and then link the rotation angle to a MIDI controller, in this case, to one of the strips on a KMI QuNeo. Haven't passed audio through it yet, but the panning display is rotating just dandy, so that may be my simple and relatively cheap (since I already bought the Waves package) solution.

As to the submixing problem in that session, it is probably some simple routing or setup thing I'm overlooking, though I've checked it over several times. It is possible it's a weird corruption with the project document, but more likely a settings thing I just have to find.

Well, one problem solved! Thanks for the feedback, by the way.

[dix]

Yes, I almost always end up editing the pan performance after the fact, to get it just right (writing panning from within the n-Panner or tri-panner, has a lot better resolution btw). A dedicated controller panner would probably be more efficient.

AudioSwift is a utility that, among many other things, makes a Magic TrackPad behave as an XY pad, but I still preferred a mouse, so I didn't buy. There's a newer version AudioSwift that I might try.