The Current State of the Mac May 2018

[mikehalloran]

I'm doing some consulting with others contemplating the move to a new iMac or iMac Pro. Some from members here, a few from lurkers and also from my EDU customers. This will focus on Audio and Video in general or DP in particular.

DP, on its own works with 16G RAM. It can work over any current Mac from the Mini and Mac Book to the iMac Pro and 6.1 Mac Pro as well as most older Macs capable of running OS 10.6.8 or newer. I've been getting a lot of questions lately from people contemplating new Macs. With that in mind, here are my thoughts based on many hours of research. I'll keep it as organized as possible.

RAM

Although DP works with 16G RAM, I recommend 32G if the Mac does any of the following: Connect to the internet, uses VIs, uses 3rd party plugins, uses certain RAM hungry apps. Memory leaks, unfortunately, have always been a fact of life but have become more pervasive in recent years. Since going to 32G, my machine no longer experiences random freezes due to not enough physical RAM—when I had 24G, it was an occasional occurrence even though I reboot daily. High Sierra has improved memory management over older OS but I still recommend 32G. Some apps and video editing benefit from more.

Cores

For audio only, 4 cores is fine as found in the current iMac/MB Pro. You can get away with 2 cores found in the Mini/MacBook. Although the i5 is adequate, pay the extra $200 for the i7—trust me on this one: i7 over i5 makes a much bigger difference than core speed.

For moderate use of VIs and occasional pro AV, 4 cores will work but you will want more. The current Mac Pro 6.1 has 6–12 cores (4 Core is available used) while the iMac Pro has 8–18 available. The heavier your VI usage and AV needs, the more cores you want. CPU speed is irrelevant here.

Mini/MacBook/MacBook Air & Pro

I'm lumping them together for a couple of reasons. The maximum RAM is 16G and they must be ordered this way. The Mini/MacBook have DuoCore processors. The MacBook has USB C but does not support TB. Only the Mini has TB 2(x2) and user upgradable storage — a compatible 2TB SSD can be found for as little as $313.

The MBPro has a QuadCore processor and can be ordered with up to 2TB SSD. It and the MacBook Air support Thunderbolt 3 through the USB C port(2 on the 15").

iMac/iMac Pro

The current 27" iMac can take 64G RAM while the 21.5" iMac is limited to 32G and the iMac Pro can take 128G. Users can upgrade the non-Pro while the Pro should only be done by expert techs. As I give pricing, I will use Apple installed 32G RAM as my baseline.

A current iMac i7 27" w/ 32G RAM, Radeon Pro 575 with 4G VRAM, Magic TrackPadII, Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad and a 1T SSD + AppleCare is $3,769 incl. shipping + sales tax. $4,579 with 2T SSD and Radeon Pro 580 with 8G VRAM (the 2T SSD is not available without the the 580 GPU). AppleCare is $169.

The iMac Pro has 8–18 cores. The base model iMac Pro 8Core/35G RAM/8G VRAM/MagicMouse/MK-Numeric/1T SSD is $4,999. Add $50 to substitute a Magic TrackPad II; add $800 for 2T SSD. AppleCare is $169.

In the US, if you plan to purchase a Pro and want more than the 32G base RAM, it is possible to save some money by having Apple ship directly to OWC upon purchase. OWC will ship to you when the work is done. Depending on your state, there may be a sale tax savings benefit. I did this in 2010 when I purchased my iMac and had OWC install the eSATA modification.
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/turnkey/imac-pro-2017

Besides adding 3 years of call-in support, AppleCare covers the hardware for 3 years including any Apple accessories included on the same ticket (Trackpad/Mouse/Time Capsule etc). The $169 is a price reduction reflecting the fact that you can get phone support nowadays without it. I'm neutral on the subject.

Storage

Because of APFS, it's a really good idea to have the largest boot drive you can budget for. I don't just mean initial costs—try to imagine your needs. Your OS, all apps and all work files should remain on the boot drive. For some of us, 1T is fine; for me, 2T now. Additional drives for your VIs, iTunes libraries etc. are fine.

Do not buy a new Mac that contains a Fusion drive (iMac/Mini only). Besides the additional heat of the included HHD, they don't support APFS and slow down as they become more full. Fortunately, it's easy to replace them with SSDs.

APFS is the most significant improvement to the Mac since Time Machine in OS 10.5. As one can do near instant system restores, it's a good analogy. I didn't know this till recently but I'll go toe to toe with anyone who disagrees. Developers have barely addressed its possibilities.

Mac Pro

The upcoming Mac Pro is being developed to run new audio and AV apps. Those who expect anything else are wrong and those writers going on about what Apple must do or needs to or include the words, price point, or affordability or what users want/demand are being idiotic to the point of silliness. Apple wants to deliver a bleeding edge Audio/Video work station. If they do, there will be a market and nothing else matters. Of course DP run on it or MOTU will make that happen soon after release.

Those expecting that the "modular" aspect of the 7.1(?) MP will include the ability to run their 5 year old PCIe cards will be disappointed. Keep your 5.1 cheesegraters for that—many threads on updating older ones to 5.1 specs and faster.

Late 2009+ Intel based Macs are likely to run current Apple OS updates for a few more years at least even if they don't support all features such as Metal graphics. Once/if Apple brings their new chip to market, current Intel Macs will be supported for 3 more years (the terms of AppleCare). By this same reasoning, Apple will cease the release of security updates for El Capitán by 2019–as they did for Yosemite this year and Mavericks the year before.

Apple may have killed future compatibility of the current 6.1 Mac Pro by crippling eGPU over Thunderbolt 2. As of OS 10.3.4, it only runs over TB 3 (all current Mac Pros and iMacs). If this is a bug and not deliberate, we'll know soon enough. The 10.13.5 Beta 3 was released 5 days ago but it still doesn't support eGPU over TB2 — some card makers have announced plans for drivers to enable this functionality whether Apple supports this or not. We'll see.

Conclusion

If buying today and are using core-taxing VIs or editing Video for a living, the iMac Pro or 6.1 Mac Pro are the best Apple has to offer. If primarily an Audio only machine, the non-pro iMac should be as good.

There is plenty of life left in the 5.1 Mac Pro and late 2009-on iMacs. I see 4 years minimum before these are no longer partially compatible— could be even longer if Apple delays the new CPU line to 2020 or later.

I just can't recommend the Mini because of the 16G RAM cap but it will work and support 2 displays. With the MacBook Pro, it's not quite as big an issue when used in the field but, as a home studio machine, my reservation is the same as a Mini.

Well, that took much longer to write than planned.

[bayswater]

Thanks for that.

I came to a few similar conclusions. The MINI, MBP etc are of no use because of the RAM limitation, and off my list. My understanding is it's a heat issue. There doesn't appear to be the option of going to OWC and putting twice the RAM in that Apple supplied, as many of us have done with older Macs.

I also found that when comparisons are restricted to Pros and iMac pros, roughly equivalent Dells, HPs, Lenovos, really are a lot cheaper, although when considering things like Logic DSP-Q and other established apps for design, images, etc, the switchover seems a bit much to handle.

Looks like the days of more and more power at lower and lower prices are over. If Apple would issue spousal receipts ...

[Sergievsky]

Cool, thanks for the report. Regarding your statement about cpu speed being irrelevant, I did have an issue when I had my 8core MacPro tower several years ago (i think it was 2.26). I was baffled at the poor performance with Spectrasonics & some other VIs, and Eric Persing said that CPU speed still mattered quite a bit. I'm not sure how it is nowadays, but I'm going to try to get as close to 3 as possible (non-turbo), especially since Omnisphere etc are in constant use.

[mikehalloran]

The overall performance increase gained by spreading the load among multiple cores (in apps hat support this) far outweighs the fact that CPU speed is slower.

Omnisphere is a known CPU hog and that’s really all I know about it. All i7 Macs meet the requirements for it easily, even the Mini. Of course, Omnisphere is never the only thing one is doing while using it. That a 12 Core 6.1 Mac Pro is rated at 2.7 GHz when the system requirement was 2.4 over Yosemite assuming an HHD and a much less efficient CPU and much slower GPU with only 1G VRAM.

Don’t discount the importance of faster graphics processors with much increased VRAM on overall performance.

[supersonic]

Cool, thanks for the report. Regarding your statement about cpu speed being irrelevant, I did have an issue when I had my 8core MacPro tower several years ago (i think it was 2.26). I was baffled at the poor performance with Spectrasonics & some other VIs, and Eric Persing said that CPU speed still mattered quite a bit. I'm not sure how it is nowadays, but I'm going to try to get as close to 3 as possible (non-turbo), especially since Omnisphere etc are in constant use.

Could it due to something other then the CPU? Soft related perhaps?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Interesting stuff, Mike. 32gb is the lowest I’d go for any decent performance. I think my (2013) trash can only has 2 cores and seems fine. Maybe the processor is faster? Must investigate that. About 4 years ago the can cost $5k after adding interfaces for spinners and a few hubs for FW and USB it would be sweet having that as a backup machine but my concern is, as usual, Finale. Many I know are sticking with 2014.5 and not using F25. The lack of a movie window and a few other odd issues make it a door stop and I fear it won’t run on the new(est) MP when released. Also, some older software (talking to you, Adobe CS 5/6) could be left behind. I’m not a fan of the annual rental of software.

[Sergievsky]

Could it due to something other then the CPU? Soft related perhaps?

Well, it’s been awhile, but I do remember trying just about everything I could think of & was almost relieved when Mr. Spectrasonics himself mentioned the importance of CPU speed. I mean, the main reason I bought the 8core was the theory that multi-core was supposed to distribute the load etc. Anyway, these were Nehalem cpus so maybe it doesn’t mean anything with the new stuff. But still, it would be interesting to see a comparison with the only difference being the cpu, say, a highspeed 4core vs lowspeed 8core.

[mikehalloran]

I think my (2013) trash can only has 2 cores

Although the current version is available from 6–12 cores, there was a 4 Core version when you bought that was recently discontinued. No 2-Core ever existed.

Something in the back of my mind says you have the 6 core. I could easily be wrong.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I think my (2013) trash can only has 2 cores

Although the current version is available from 6–12 cores, there was a 4 Core version when you bought that was recently discontinued. No 2-Core ever existed.

Something in the back of my mind says you have the 6 core. I could easily be wrong.

Shows how tech savvy I am... Guess I was thinking single processor. LOL Here's the specs...

Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro6,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon E5
Processor Speed: 3.7 GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 4
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 10 MB
Memory: 32 GB
Boot ROM Version: MP61.0120.B00
SMC Version (system): 2.20f18
Illumination Version: 1.4a6

[Guitar Gaz]

Not had any issues with my Fusion Drive (HHD 3TB, SSD 129GB, 32GB RAM) - certainly no heat issues. So while a lot of people on forums are saying don't get them, all I can say is that it seems okay to me. I would guess the next upgrade will involve SSD's but happy for now with my "wrong" choice.

[joelfriedman]

I'm very happy to see this thread right now as for the 1st time in a l-o-n-g while I am both reengaging with DP for a theater project and now looking to replace my 2008 3,1 MP (gasp...). Two things.
1. I was just told to by a friend get this:
4.2 GHz Intel Core i7 Quad-Core
32GB of DDR4 RAM | 3TB Fusion Drive
27" 5120 x 2880 IPS Retina 5K Display
AMD Radeon Pro 580 Graphics Card (8GB)
And he has had no problems with Fusion drives either. Was this an issue with earlier drives (I know there were also defects)?
2. I know the answer - get it when you need it! - but I am curious if anyone has heard *if* there are going to release an upgraded iMac ASAP. MacRumors has them as "Don't Buy."

Thanks!

[bayswater]

I'm very happy to see this thread right now as for the 1st time in a l-o-n-g while I am both reengaging with DP for a theater project and now looking to replace my 2008 3,1 MP (gasp...). Two things.
1. I was just told to by a friend get this:
4.2 GHz Intel Core i7 Quad-Core
32GB of DDR4 RAM | 3TB Fusion Drive
27" 5120 x 2880 IPS Retina 5K Display
AMD Radeon Pro 580 Graphics Card (8GB)
And he has had no problems with Fusion drives either. Was this an issue with earlier drives (I know there were also defects)?
2. I know the answer - get it when you need it! - but I am curious if anyone has heard *if* there are going to release an upgraded iMac ASAP. MacRumors has them as "Don't Buy."

Thanks!

Customization of Macs is seriously limited, so where does this description comes from? It is the basic iMac Pro, or a basic iMac with more RAM? I've been looking at these but haven't been that impressed. The Geekbench score on the one I think you are describing doesn't exactly grab your attention.

As for Fusion, why bother? I know quite a few people who haven't had any problems, but assuming you'll have a new Mac for a long time, may as well get the SSD and leave the old stuff behind.

Upgrades? I think the iMac Pro is it.

[joelfriedman]

Hi,

It was a quick copy & paste from B&H Audio's page. It's the regular 27" iMac souped up on Apple's site. I bumped up the processor etc. Even then it's still a good deal less than the iMacPro.

Customize your 27‑inch iMac with Retina 5K display.
4.2GHz quad-core 7th-generation Intel Core i7 processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.5GHz
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
3TB Fusion Drive
Radeon Pro 580 with 8GB video memory
Magic Mouse 2 + Magic Trackpad 2
Magic Keyboard - US English
(not sure the link will work: https://www.apple.com/us-hed/shop/buy-m ... tep=config#)

The issue with SSD is it's still quite expensive for me.

But I do wonder if I should until June 4th for the WWDC to see if they release a bump in the iMacs.

[mikehalloran]

The upside: a Fusion drive is inexpensive and, until it starts filling up, it’s faster than an HHD alone. You can get 3T while the largest SSD is still 2T (the Pro has 4T available).

My recommendation still stands: Don’t buy a new iMac with a fusion drive. I have a few reasons for this.

a. Heat is the enemy of components. The iMac is an oven in a way that no other Mac is. An HHD is an additional heat source and the ones that Apple use run very hot.

b. HHDs don’t last as long as SSDs.

c. Like HHDs, Fusion drives don’t support APFS. Even the blade and an SSD combined don’t. Either Apple will solve this or as time goes on, the additional features will not be available — on a relatively new machine? Really?

The HHD in a 2012 — 2018 iMac (not the Pro) is easy to replace. You need an SSD, a $12 adapter bracket and a special $40 heat sensor from OWC. Unlike earlier iMacs, there is no separate glass and the screen is held on by double-stick tape. So you need the tape kit plus a couple guitar picks or the plastic pizza wheel to separate the screen. It’s easy to do. Techs charge around $75 here in the Silicon Valley. If doing it after 3 years, replace the BR2032 battery as long as the screen is off and the tape has to be replaced anyway.

2T SSDs are priced at $312 — $750 with a few excellent ones at $500. A 4T is $1,300 (still cheaper than Apple).

So, you don’t want to do this while it’s under the one year Warranty or three year AppleCare. It’s an upgrade to schedule afterwards. I replaced the HHD in my 2010 nearly 3 years ago and the savings on my electric bill has paid for it by now (including that I don’t run the AC as much in the summer).

[mikehalloran]

But I do wonder if I should until June 4th for the WWDC to see if they release a bump in the iMacs.

Possible. I see no reason not to make the 4T SSD available in the non-Pro.

Also possible that the Fusion Drive will be dropped. That Apple still carries a current machine that can’t take advantage of all the features of the latest OS must rankle some. If not, I will think that 10.14 will announce some limited support of APFS on Fusion drives.

Anyway, if a bumped iMac is announced, the other will hit the Refurb Store the second the new ones ship.

Not holding my breath on any of this. The only rumors I’ve heard are about the expected iPad Pro bump and a new iPhone SE II... Oh, and OS 10.14.

We’ll know in a few weeks.