Mixing Options and Plugins

[bolla]

I was extremely lucky to work in a facility that housed two Neve consoles and an early E series SSL.
Add in a few EMI TG mastering consoles and you can probably work out where if you are an Aussie.

Each studio would be hired with some included "outboard gear" and anything else you needed/wanted was paid for by the record company or client.

You would generally pay for a 480L and
also an AMS delay and maybe an AMS reverb.

You could scavenge for free/unwanted/unfashionable units like…

Marshall Time Modulator
Eventide Flanger 201
LA-3A
Dolby A units for expansion
Vocal Stressors
EMT-245
1176 Black face
140 TS plates that weren't being used.
Studer tape machines

So for most mixes you would have the EQ of the console. A few channels could also have outboard EQ or compression.
You would have two main reverbs with perhaps the option of a third.
………and you couldn't easily repair any of the audio that you were given.......


My point.

A limited palette can sometimes produce better results than having multiple options.

Cheers, Bolla

Bolla.

[monkey man]

Hey Adrian; hope you're well, mate.

I've not yet bought plugs and VIs, but this philosophy, which I've held since Adam was a boy, will be scrupulously applied when I do.

Recently I tried to convince my little brother, 25 years my junior, of this approach. I pointed out to him that track and mixer limitations, along with limited plug-in and preset options, effectively curtail decision-making time at every conceivable point of progression through a project's development.

I gave up in the end. This approach was no match for Gen Y, apparently.

[David Polich]

I love having the plugin versions of
almost all the gear described in the OP.
Much prefer working "in the box". I dont
miss the limitations of the old studio
days. It just made me mad when I couldnt
get more than two reverbs. Or more than one
LA2A or 1176. Now I can have as many as
I want for the fraction of the cost.

Really, there isnt anything good about
limitations. We're living in the best times
for recording and making music. The good old
days...good riddance, AFAIK.

[musicman691]

I love having the plugin versions of
almost all the gear described in the OP.
Much prefer working "in the box". I dont
miss the limitations of the old studio
days. It just made me mad when I couldnt
get more than two reverbs. Or more than one
LA2A or 1176. Now I can have as many as
I want for the fraction of the cost.

Really, there isnt anything good about
limitations. We're living in the best times
for recording and making music. The good old
days...good riddance, AFAIK.

I don't think the op was talking so much about working in the box where you can have almost unlimited (up to cpu limits) numbers of plugins but the variations of plugins. Can save time when working when you don't need to decide which emulation of an 1176/LA2A/dbx160 or other plugins to use. How many of us have multiple versions and go do I use the UAD version, IKMM version or maybe the stock ones in DP? Or the various EQP1A emulations?

[mikehalloran]

My point.
A limited palette can sometimes produce better results than having multiple options

Uh yea, right. If that kind of cognitive dissonance works for you, go for it.

I made great recordings in the analog days with limited resources and could do it again if I had to but if I never touch another splicing block, it's too soon. I'm certain that most of the equipment in my basement still works.

Really, there isnt anything good about
limitations. We're living in the best times
for recording and making music. The good old
days...good riddance, AFAIK.

I'm with you 100%.

I don't think the op was talking so much about working in the box where you can have almost unlimited (up to cpu limits) numbers of plugins but the variations of plugins. Can save time when working when you don't need to decide which emulation of an 1176/LA2A/dbx160 or other plugins to use. How many of us have multiple versions and go do I use the UAD version, IKMM version or maybe the stock ones in DP? Or the various EQP1A emulations?

Youre both equating faster with better, a common mistake.

[bayswater]

I'm with you 100%.

Same here. If I want to get back, I can easily limit myself to one cheap mic, 2 four track sequences that go out of sync, no MIDI, one instance of a spring reverb emulation, and add noise on each bounce.

[Phil O]

I find that the nature of a project will suggest, even dictate, a palette. The mics, pres, EQs, compressors, whatever, that I choose are dictated by the vibe, musicians, instruments, and what not. The more tools that I have at my disposal, the more flexibility I have in assembling that palette. Every project is different and I think limitations are just that - limitations. JMHO.

...My point.

A limited palette can sometimes produce better results than having multiple options...

I see your point, but I think a good engineer knows how to choose his/her palette carefully and not use tools simply because they are there. If the best solution for a song (or whatever) is to use minimal effects, then the master of his art will figure that out and use only what he/she needs for best results.


Philippe

[ghobish]

If your limitations include 32 or more channels of Neve or SSL EQs...

[musicman691]

My point.
A limited palette can sometimes produce better results than having multiple options

Uh yea, right. If that kind of cognitive dissonance works for you, go for it.

I made great recordings in the analog days with limited resources and could do it again if I had to but if I never touch another splicing block, it's too soon. I'm certain that most of the equipment in my basement still works.

Really, there isnt anything good about
limitations. We're living in the best times
for recording and making music. The good old
days...good riddance, AFAIK.

I'm with you 100%.

I don't think the op was talking so much about working in the box where you can have almost unlimited (up to cpu limits) numbers of plugins but the variations of plugins. Can save time when working when you don't need to decide which emulation of an 1176/LA2A/dbx160 or other plugins to use. How many of us have multiple versions and go do I use the UAD version, IKMM version or maybe the stock ones in DP? Or the various EQP1A emulations?

Youre both equating faster with better, a common mistake.

I never said that faster was better, just that one could save time - that's all. But sometimes one can get lost trying to choose between various choices.

[mikehalloran]

Are you saying that saving time is not faster?

But sometimes one can get lost trying to choose between various choices.

Really? That has never been my problem and I suspect it's true for most of us.

My daughter was actively recruited to do her undergrad in music by a school better known for its medical and veterinary schools than music. We were told that the number one undergrad major for medical school is Music (I assume the sciences are not lumped together for this stat). Why? Because musicians are used to making decisions while they work, a critical skill for doctors.

It's true for skilled recording engineers, too. We make decisions while we work. Those who don't can't deliver projects on time and within budget.

[musicman691]

Are you saying that saving time is not faster?

But sometimes one can get lost trying to choose between various choices.

Really? That has never been my problem and I suspect it's true for most of us.

My daughter was actively recruited to do her undergrad in music by a school better known for its medical and veterinary schools than music. We were told that the number one undergrad major for medical school is Music (I assume the sciences are not lumped together for this stat). Why? Because musicians are used to making decisions while they work, a critical skill for doctors.

It's true for skilled recording engineers, too. We make decisions while we work. Those who don't can't deliver projects on time and within budget.

I suppose you don't have tons of choices amongst plugins then. For those that do it is entirely possible to lose your way amongst having a myriad of choices.

[monkey man]

My depression, CFS, auto-immune issues and heavy-metal poisoning have surely conspired to sabotage my decision-making ability. There's no doubt that I have difficulty making choices; the more expansive the spread of options, the more ridiculous the challenge.

So, for me, there can be no doubt that the Spartan approach I take to settings (go with defaults wherever possible, including MIDI ones such as GM), preset collections, plug-library building and now my outboard MIDI setup's size-reduction (selling much-loved items in the name of simplifitittication), is absolutely necessary as a measure to reduce instances of indecision which unfortunately feed introspection and stifle, often completely halting, my creative flow.

How I wish I could be like the true pro engineers and musicians I admire; their decision-making time is so quick I can't even detect it on their faces. I, on the other hand, start to frown, a L<->R brain shift occurrs and then it's game over for the Monkster.

What I'm saying is that for most of you guys, it seems larger palettes are surely useful to have access to. For those of us who've identitittified decision-making issues in ourselves, I highly recommend the Monkey Spartan™ approach. Better to make a "lower quality" product than none at all. It just so happens that my pathetic budget marries up with this philosophy quite nicely, which is a silver lining I s'pose.

[bayswater]

Better to make a "lower quality" product than none at all.

If a product is what you need, yes, definitely. When I have to produce something, I try to consider what I can do with the time and money available. When it's just for my own amusement, it never gets finished. Both are OK with me.

[musicman691]

Better to make a "lower quality" product than none at all.

If a product is what you need, yes, definitely. When I have to produce something, I try to consider what I can do with the time and money available. When it's just for my own amusement, it never gets finished. Both are OK with me.

One of my problems with personal projects is I think they're done then some time down the road I get a plugin or plugin suite and go like 'this'll sound good on this piece and this and so on'. Happened when I got Alloy2 (I had already been using IK TRacks stuff a good deal) then again when I got the Waves TG12345 strip (ended up redoing a bunch of projects that had piano and strings and for those that plugin is gorgeous to my ears).

But for the paying clients as long as they're happy with what I give them and it's on time it's all good.

[bayswater]

Happened when I got Alloy2

For me it was the free download of Ultraverb. When I first heard it, I had to go back and try it on loads of old stuff, right back to things I'd done on Cubase Atari. But that sort of obsession has to help the quality of the work you do for other people.