SSD Drives with new Mac Pro / DP8

[Chris T]

I just got the new Mac Pro 12-Core with 64GB of RAM. I run DP 8 and VE Ens Pro server (for sounds). The internal drive I have is 500GB, so I was planning on just running programs, synth libraries (e.g. NI, Omnisphere, Stylus RMX etc) and Movies off the internal, with the rest of my sound libraries (East-West Orch, LASS, Cinesamples etc) on Exernal Thunderbolt drives. I'm planning to run DP Work sessions (including audio) on an 2nd external TB drive, with two more large externals for my backups / clones. (backups would be just regular SATA).

My question is: Is there a consensus on the best means and location for storing Sample libraries and Work sessions?

A lot of folks like the TB RAID drives (e.g. G-Tech / Pegasus RAID etc), however these are traditional SATA drives. Why would these be any better than SSD drives to run samples & sessions? I assume it's just the COST of 1TB SSDs that prevents people from going all SSD for external storage - am I correct?

Also, assuming SSDs are the better / faster option, can anyone recommend the best way to hook them up? Should I do just do individual TB cables or a 2-drive SSD enclosure with 1TB cable? If I get enclosure, might this not cause a bottleneck since at least 2 drives at once could be trying to access the same TB connection?…

Your thoughts on External storage / Performance for the NEw Mac Pro would be most appreciated!

(also any OS Yosemite issues I should be aware of re. DP8 / general VIs / plugs. I have most of the big ones..).

Thnx

[HCMarkus]

I assume it's just the COST of 1TB SSDs that prevents people from going all SSD for external storage - am I correct?

I'd say so.

I think you would have a very hard time saturating a single Thunderbolt bus when pulling samples from external SSDs even if you use a single multiple-PCIe external enclosure, but if cost is not an issue, one PCIe per TB port pretty much guarantees you won't ever hit a bottleneck.

With your new Mac, it sounds like you are set up to run DP within an optimum environment. Enjoy!

[mikehalloran]

The big bottleneck is the speed of spinning hard drives. Remove that and you have a license to fly.

Get an external housing that supports JBOD if you want each drive to show up on the desktop. They all support a few flavors of RAID (some are slower; others are fast).

I can only speculate how many VIs it would take to saturate a TB 2 buss. Let's just say that it's a hell of a lot more than a FW800 buss which, until recently, was the biggest pipe available to a Mac.

If you are editing HD or 4K video, it's a real concern. Audio only is not.

[Chris T]

If I went with these for my sounds. I have about 1.8TB, so if I used 2 of these, that should cover it:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electroni ... B00E3W16OU

Question is, should I also go for and external SSD for my Work (DP Sessions) drive, or not? Is the Read/Write thing still more reliable on traditional SATA drives?

Or should I run my Work off my internal Prog drive?… (I'd have to get a 1TB in that case)...

[HCMarkus]

If I went with these for my sounds. I have about 1.8TB, so if I used 2 of these, that should cover it:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electroni ... B00E3W16OU

Question is, should I also go for and external SSD for my Work (DP Sessions) drive, or not? Is the Read/Write thing still more reliable on traditional SATA drives?

Or should I run my Work off my internal Prog drive?… (I'd have to get a 1TB in that case)...

I've been running projects from SSD for two years without any issues. I'd use the internal SSD on your new Mac for work drive. It will be trimmed, which is important for SSDs which are written to a lot.

Make sure you flash the firmware on the Samsung EVO drives when you get 'em, especially before using for your sample storage, as there is an issue with stale data getting slow reads. See:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8617/sams ... rmance-bug

The DOS Tool is available now... create a bootable CD or USB Stick. There was a thread here all about it recently. Or search Macrumors.

[Chris T]

So with the new Mac Pro is it now considersed better to run the DAW sessions off the internal PCI SSD (which also runs programs)? Is the traditional preference for a dedicated work drive now trumped by the internal Drive in the New Mac Pro?

[HCMarkus]

So with the new Mac Pro is it now considersed better to run the DAW sessions off the internal PCI SSD (which also runs programs)? Is the traditional preference for a dedicated work drive now trumped by the internal Drive in the New Mac Pro?

PCIe storage streams an order of magnitude faster than spinning drives, and seek time virtually instantaneous. The need for a separate work drive is no more.

Of course, you can use a second drive as a work drive. But with the Trim work around requirement imposed under Yosemite (which I assume you will be running with a brand new Mac Pro) enabling Trim is not everyone's cup of tea. Only Apple original equipment SSDs are Trimmed automatically by OSX. And when you are talking about a work drive that will see lots of write-read-erase activity, Trim is pretty important. Unless you want to go with a traditional spinning hard drive.

Other than a few seldom-used VIs, I use spinners for backup only.

[Chris T]

Ok thanks. So if I swapped out the 500GB internal SSD for a 1TB, I would have to "enable TRIM" on that, right? Is that easy to do?

And when you mentioned "TRIM is not everyone's cup of tea", how is that? What does it do that's annoying?… Thx

[HCMarkus]

Ok thanks. So if I swapped out the 500GB internal SSD for a 1TB, I would have to "enable TRIM" on that, right? Is that easy to do?

And when you mentioned "TRIM is not everyone's cup of tea", how is that? What does it do that's annoying?… Thx

Trim is automatically enabled on Apple original equipment drives. So if you swap out your Apple internal drive for an Apple replacement, trim will automatically be enabled. Enabling trim on non-Apple drives is a bit of a pain under Yosemite due to the kext signing issue. Search the web for more on this

[mikehalloran]

Ok thanks. So if I swapped out the 500GB internal SSD for a 1TB, I would have to "enable TRIM" on that, right? Is that easy to do?

And when you mentioned "TRIM is not everyone's cup of tea", how is that? What does it do that's annoying?… Thx

There are a few other threads on Trim. Read them. They're long but explain everything--no need to rewrite it a third time.

Although the internal drive is socketed, there is no aftermarket replacement available for the internal SSD in the nMP.

[Chris T]

Oh I see! So I won't be able to swap out my internal PCIe SSD anyway….

As far as project management etc goes, it might be easier for me to host my Work on an external TB drive. Would this confer any DISAVANTAGES vs running my work on the internal SSD ?… Would it be any slower on external TB SSD or TB RAID?

[HCMarkus]

Oh I see! So I won't be able to swap out my internal PCIe SSD anyway….

As far as project management etc goes, it might be easier for me to host my Work on an external TB drive. Would this confer any DISAVANTAGES vs running my work on the internal SSD ?… Would it be any slower on external TB SSD or TB RAID?

You actually CAN swap out the internal drive... EBay sellers offer replacement Apple OEM drives.

No worries using external. Just not quite as fast (unless you get TB PCIe external), and no native Trim. (Although, as I think about this, if you put an Apple OEM PCIe SSD in an external PCIe TB encosure, Trim might just be automatically enabled...)

Chris, I should mention that, when it comes to the new Mac Pro, I speak only from knowledge gained thru careful perusal of on-line resources. I am happily running a 2009 Mac Pro that I flashed to a 2010 then upgraded to hex 3.33 CPU. I am staying on ML 'cause it is working flawlessly with DP 8.07 and I see no compelling reason to change my studio machine over to a newer OS. I encourage you to look over the posts at MacRumors in the Mac Pro Forum. And if you bought any Samsung EVO drives, make sure you upgrade the firmware.

[mikehalloran]

EBay sellers offer replacement Apple OEM drives.

Yes but he already has a 512G and probably doesn't want a 256G. I am not seeing a 1T available from anyone and there are no 3rd party options (yet?).

It is possible that some 1T blades will become available but you don't want to count on that. For what you want to do, an external is fine.

Gazing into my crystal ball, if/when 2T becomes available, someone will make one to fit the nMP. At that point, there will be plenty on eBay but a) that is pure speculation and b) at least a year away.

[Chris T]

Thinking about it I'd be fine with the 500GB internal to store my CURRENT work projects. I can just archive old projects more often to external SATAs so as to free up room on my internal SSD.

My only concern would be, which would be most taxing on my system of these two options:

1. Run work off the internal SSD (which is also being accessed for Apps - i.e. DP / VEP, AND running heavy plugins (e.g. Altiverb etc), AND running Video. or,

2. Run work off an external (500 or 1TB) SSD, either in a 4-drive TB enclosure or in its own dedicated enclosure, since I'll also be running sounds from another drive in that enclosure, so wouldn't want to tax the system that way.

Any opinions?

[mikehalloran]

You are talking about watering a large lawn with the equivalent of a firehose.

For the lowest latency, have an SSD or two at the other end of that TB 2 wire. Other than that, there is no issue. You can bundle them in a RAID array or access them individually if the housing supports JBOD. However you do it is going to be great.

Use your spinners for Time Machine or put them in a RAID array at the other end of a TB or USB 3 connection. It will work just fine but there may be a touch of latency, that's all.

Search for SSD Trim. There are many threads by now including this one. The others have many pages and plenty of links. If you need to, spend a few days reading them all including the links (they are interesting) -- it will take that long. You'll understand the issues better.

It appears to me that you want someone to say there's one best way to do it, all the others suck and then explain in great detail why. That's not going to happen because none of the possibilities suck; they're all good.