Is USB 3 fine for sample streaming and DP Audio?

[FMiguelez]

Hello.

I need to make a purchase/import for a battery, so I want to take advantage of this and order a few other things.

Since I will get another MacMini Server to replace my G5, I need to sort out a few details:

1.- Can samples be successfully streamed from a USB 3 external interface with a fast spinning disk? I use VE Pro and VI Pro a lot.
Will it work at least as good as a good old eSATA connection?

2.- How about DP audio? Does it work or does it choke (compared to eSATA)?

3.- Another option (cheaper for me, so I don't need to buy new external enclosures) would be to buy an eSATA to USB 3 converter, such as this. Would that work for DP or Samples?
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/ADESATAUSB3O/

I would get SSDs, but 2 of them are more expensive than the computer, so it makes not much sense at this time.

Apparently, one can not even have one 7200 RPM HD inside the MM because of heat issues. I could order it with 2 5400 RPM HDs, but I know this won't work.

Would performance suffer a lot with a 5400 disk for the OS?

The point is that I need at least 3 HDs in the MM: One for the OS, one for sample streaming and the other for DP audio.
What options would you recommend (in terms of connectivity format) to be able to connect 3 fast HDs somehow (internal and/or external with regular spinning disks)?

Thank you!

[FMiguelez]

Wow!

According to Ben from OWC, having 2 7200 RPM internal HDs would not be a problem at all. He said that the fans might get a little loud at times, but this should not create heating issues.

He also mentioned the reason Apple didn't include that option in their purchase page is because it might not be a very popular configuration. I know this is speculation, but it makes sense, I suppose.

He recommended to buy 2 of these for my MacMini:
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Western% ... D7500BPKT/

Apparently the largest cache for 2.5" drives is only 16 MBs... Hopefully that's fine for the OS disk...

What do you guys think? (Mike Halloran?)


This would make things so much easier for me!

Now I just need to decide upon ONE external HD enclosure. So what about that USB 3 for sample streaming?

[bayswater]

I don't know about USB 3 except that it's fast and cheap. What could possibly go wrong?

The new mini also has a FW connection too, doesn't it? Maybe you already have some of those. And what about using the TB connection. That would seem to give you effectively limitless disk access.

(As for the two internal 7200 drives, if the fans are going to be running loud, that sounds like a heat issue.)

[FMiguelez]

I don't know about USB 3 except that it's fast and cheap. What could possibly go wrong?

I know!
The thing is that I remember reading somewhere that USB streams its data in some kind of "blocks" that are not ideal for sample streaming. And I don't remember where I read that! Worse, it was somewhere reputable... that's why I want to make sure it will work with no surprises.
Someone in MOTUNation must certainly have experience with these USB 3 enclosures?

The new mini also has a FW connection too, doesn't it? Maybe you already have some of those.

Yes, it does
Since I've never used anything other than SATA or eSATA for music, I don't know what the choking point of FW800 is (either, for audio or samples).
But you are correct. This is one good option too.

Actually, thank you for reminding me about that! I guess I'll try either, samples or audio with FW800. If it works, fine. Otherwise, I'll get something better, but for now, this will save me money

And what about using the TB connection. That would seem to give you effectively limitless disk access.

Yes, except that I haven't found any external enclosures with TB.
I've heard of a few converters (X to TB), but apparently they don't work that great.

(As for the two internal 7200 drives, if the fans are going to be running loud, that sounds like a heat issue.)

Agreed.
I'm not concerned about the noise because I won't hear it (I have a good place to put the MM), but my worry is (was?) that some computer component might get damaged in the long run because of heat.

I guess I'll ask yet another OWC tech person to reconfirm what I was told about this, just to make sure (yes, I have trust issues with tech support people, mostly because I'm used to being disappointed with Mexican support... they'll tell you anything, even lies, just to make a sale. I know the OWC guys are different, but my brain patterns have been permanently distorted because of this).

Thank you for your response, Agua de la Bahía (yes, that's what BaysWater means in Spanish)

[bayswater]

Yes, except that I haven't found any external enclosures with TB.

Not just encloses, but lots of external drives.
Lacie has some that are quite expensive http://www.lacie.com/ca/products/product.htm?id=10549
But OWC has some that are not as expensive and have USB 3 ports too. http://eshop.macsales.com/search/buffalo+thunderbolt

Thank you for your response, Agua de la Bahía (yes, that's what BaysWater means in Spanish)

Thanks for the translation. Actually Bayswater has nothing to do with bays. The name comes from Baynard's Castle that had access to good spring water, hence, Baynard's Water.

[FutureLegends]

I just got a Western Digital Scorpio Black 750gb 2.5" drive that I use externally via USB3. It achieves 125mb/s in Blackmagic's drive speed test app.
The drive I have my samples on in my old Mac Pro (500gb Seagate 7200rpm) got around 90mb/s in the same test.
My latest 3.5" (2TB Seagate 7200rpm) scored around 180-190mb/s when mounted internally in the Mac Pro and 160mb/s when mounted in a USB3 enclosure connectet to my rMBP...

It's a shame the TB drives still are so expensive. Many of them also have 5400rpm drives in them, which seems like a total waste!

[dkochan]

I just recently purchased a Mac Mini 2012 with an internal 7200 rpm 750GB drive (put in custom) and bumped the system up to 16GB RAM. Before I forget, I have the 2.3GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 non-server version. This Mac mini has firewire for my Saffire Pro 56, 4 USB 3.0 ports and thunderbolt. I have run my Saffire Pro off a Thunderbolt to Firewire convertor and it seemed to work fine. Since then, I am just running the Saffire off the native firewire port and using the Thunderbolt port to run an extra monitor. I have not yet tested too much running heavy duty samples yet from one of USB 3.0 port drives other than Superior Drummer and a few Machfive piano samples, but audio with tons of plug-ins has been working great thus far. I am running 4 large SATA drives, each within a double drive Vantec enclosure ($75 each), each into 2 different USB 3.0 Mac Mini port with 2 USB 3.0 ports left over for dongles, MIDI interfaces, etc. Needless to say, I am very pleased with this set-up so far. Much to my surprise, I am really "diggiing" these USB 3.0 ports a lot. Initially, I was initially fully expecting to have to get a Thunderbolt to eSata convertor (LaCie) to get all my Sata hard drives to work, but USB 3.0 is fitting the bill so far. Hope that helps.

[FMiguelez]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I think I'll try the 2 internal HDs at 7200 RPM (OS and Audio), and an external USB3 for samples. I decided I need another enclosure, so I'll see how it goes.
If something behaves funky, then I could also switch to FW800.

All I have to do now is find out how to connect my two old 23" Apple Cinema displays (around 2004?) to the MM. Oh, and some more RAM too.

This new computer will also finally let my try DP8!

[kgdrum]

Not exactly the same thing so I've been reluctant to reply but I think I should tell you something I noticed recently with my admittedly limited use of USB3.

I setup a dedicated iTunes music playback system for a friend of mine last month.
I had him get a 13" MacBook Pro(nonRetina) and a 2tb HD in a OWC branded enclosure that could be connected to this Mac via USB3 or via FW 800,this Mac as I'm sure you all know, does not have eSATA available
;(

The drive is 7200rpm 64mb cache and when I setup the system with USB3 there were lots of dropouts,I repaired permissions,rebooted etc.... It was still pretty bad.
On a hunch I decided to switch the drive to FW800 and the dropouts issue is much better now,occasionally it happens but rarely & a simple reboot cures it.
It's not DP and it's only 1 setup but in this case FW800 seems better than USB3 for streaming iTunes audio to me.
So from my limited experience with
USB3 I still trust FW800 more.

[FMiguelez]

Hi, Kenny.

Yeah... I keep reading contradictory reports about USB3 for audio or streaming. Even in KVR, it seems to work great for some, not so good for others, and everything in between

I guess I'll have to see for myself how it goes. The good thing is that I need another enclosure anyway, so at least it wouldn't be wasted money if it drops audio or stutters

I'll let you guys know how it goes when I get all this together.

[bayswater]

I'll let you guys know how it goes when I get all this together.

Please do that. I'll probably be looking at a Mini to replace my G5.

[FMiguelez]

I'll let you guys know how it goes when I get all this together.

Please do that. I'll probably be looking at a Mini to replace my G5.

Of course!
So we are in the exact same boat!

Someone told me about a store here in Mexico that will offer 18 interest-free monthly installments for Apple stuff. I certainly hope this is true, since that would make it quite easy and comfortable to pay...

What are you planning on doing with your G5 once you replace it? Door stop or will you try to squeeze a few more drops out of it?
I may do the latter, especially if I can't run a few of my now vintage VIs with ML (Virtual Guitarist II and Groove Agent). Or perhaps I should give it to my parents.

[bayswater]

What are you planning on doing with your G5 once you replace it?

It's already my second computer after a newer iMac, and I don't think I'll have a use for it. I would use my iMac processor as a VI slave, and use the screen on it for the Mini.

Maybe I'll give the G5 it to a charity if I can find one that will take it. I tried to sell my G4 when I got my G5, but no one wanted it. The local Apple club refused to collect it as a donation and the local second hand Mac store wouldn't take it on consignment.

It's possible I'll keep the G5 just to host a UAD-1 card, but a lot of newer plugins from other suppliers are so good, I'm not so sure I'll get a lot of use out of the UAD any more.

[HCMarkus]

My G5 is my DP backup machine, which I also use for graphics tasks and printing CDs, so it gets at least a little exercise now and then. One of these days, I'll get around to changing the boot drive on the G5 to one of the Raptor (former) sample-streaming drives I now have sitting unused... it will be so much more fun to work with the G5 then.

Good luck with the new Mini, and USB3, FM!

[mikehalloran]

eSATA acts as an internal drive as does a Thunderbolt drive. I don't know about usb3.

I would also look at an eSATA to TB adapter. This one will handle two externals and is available for $179 - $209 from many places including the Apple store.



http://www.amazon.com/LaCie-eSATA-Hub-c ... t+to+esata

The eSATA/usb3 external docks are reliable and quiet having no fans. The ones I have came with eSATA cables - another savings.



http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/NewerTec ... Drive_Dock

You can get eSATA/usb2 docks under $20 from MicroCenter but since your Mini has usb3, you probably want the ones that OWC carries.