FW Chain ! What do you do?

[slybass3000]

Hi gang,
I'm changing my current set-up: Mac Pro 8 core with an Ensemble FW400. I use some VI's like the Spectrasonics stuff on a 2nd internal drive and some sounds comes from an external FW 800 drive also. No probs there since my Mac has both FW inputs 400/800.

I bought the latest MacBook Pro 17" mainly for the screen size and the super drive.

There is only 1 FW 800 input but 3 usb and 1 TB. So far I've put a lot of VI's and sounds on the internal drive without partitions. My SAGE folder for the Spectra's are on the external 800 drive.

So now my sound card (Ensemble) is FW400 going into a 800 drive that streaming the sounds of Spectra but at 400 because of the Ensemble. That is going into the Mac. So I'm basically working at 400. Is that ok and reliable? i know that not long ago, the operating system needed to be separated from the rest and VI's sounds also but it doesn't seem as important anymore because of the speed of the processors nowadays.

I have couple of options:
1) Get rid of the Ensemble for a FW800 card, expensive!
2) Get a TB drive Expensive and not many choices
3) get a usb card since I rarely record several tracks at once.

What is your experience and thinking on this?

Thanks,

Sly

[mikehalloran]

>So I'm basically working at 400. Is that ok and reliable?<

Yes but the drive will not be all it can be. The only away around that is with a FW800 hub. Then your HD would be at 800 while your 400 devices would remain the same.

You have a few other options:

Get an eSATA card. eSATA is 3x the speed of FW800. If you get a card with MultiPort capability, you can hook up to 10 or 20 drives with some add-on boxes. Most MultiPort cards will let you hook up two drives without the box. Get one or a pair of eSATA docks - $16 each from MicroCenter and put bare drives into it. These docks come with cables, BTW, and are the same brand that I use.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/3005 ... ch_Back_Up

You can get a TB-eSATA(2) hub for $199 - less if you don't buy it from the Apple store. Lets you hook up two eSATA drives through your TB port. Again, one or two of those docks works great (I've been using a pair for 2 years now).

http://store.apple.com/us/product/H8875 ... hunderbolt

[supersonic]

Mike's suggestions are good.
I have a 2010 MBP so I use an express card FW800 and Sata adapter. Also, in order to avoid using the same drive for the system and the sample libraries and audio data I also stripped my MBP of the optical drive and put the OWC's drive adaptor with a 750 Black Scorpio Drive, my main system drive being the Momentus XT. I have all my current work on that drive on one partition and samples on another. I most often use samples with few audio tracks and when frozen disable them so the drive is not split between having to provide for both tasks. I also use the external TB La Cie Little Big drive in JBOD mode. One drive for samples and the other for audio. In my tests having it stripped in RAID didn't bring substantial time reduction in sample load. Also for those who will get the Uaudio Apollo's TB option, its 2 FW 800 ports act as a hub. Kind of neat except the option in question is expensive.

[slybass3000]

Thank you both for your replies, it helps a lot.

About the dock, I will be able to use my internal drives from my Mac Pro into that?

[mikehalloran]

Thank you both for your replies, it helps a lot.

About the dock, I will be able to use my internal drives from my Mac Pro into that?

Yes. The dock will accept either a 2.5" or 3.5" SATA drive. It drops right in. It also works as a usb external but not both simultaneously nor will it function as a hub. It comes with a power supply, usb and eSATA cables. Drives run cool and there is no fan noise.

There are versions that will accept two drives. Unfortunately, both drives show up only when connected via usb. When connected via eSATA, only one is accessed.

The only down side is that eSATA is not hot swappable. The external must be turned on before booting your Mac.

I have had the issue where someone tried to disconnect, then re-connect while everything was live. Although normally this does not cause a problem, I have seen directory issues where the external would not mount. Both times, multiple passes with Apple's Disk Utility Repair Disk fixed the drive and no data was lost. DiskWarrior and TechTool Pro were totally useless for this task, BTW, and ran screaming into the night. It was interesting because every pass through Disk Utility gave different results - on the 4th attempt, the drive mounted and on the 5th, it was given a clean bill of health. So, if you lose your eSATA connection, shut down your Mac before plugging the external back in.

[kgdrum]

>So I'm basically working at 400. Is that ok and reliable?<

Yes but the drive will not be all it can be. The only away around that is with a FW800 hub. Then your HD would be at 800 while your 400 devices would remain the same.

You have a few other options:

Get an eSATA card. eSATA is 3x the speed of FW800. If you get a card with MultiPort capability, you can hook up to 10 or 20 drives with some add-on boxes. Most MultiPort cards will let you hook up two drives without the box. Get one or a pair of eSATA docks - $16 each from MicroCenter and put bare drives into it. These docks come with cables, BTW, and are the same brand that I use.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/3005 ... ch_Back_Up

You can get a TB-eSATA(2) hub for $199 - less if you don't buy it from the Apple store. Lets you hook up two eSATA drives through your TB port. Again, one or two of those docks works great (I've been using a pair for 2 years now).

http://store.apple.com/us/product/H8875 ... hunderbolt

Hi Mike,a few questions about the dock,

http://www.microcenter.com/product/3005 ... ch_Back_Up

Am I understanding correctly this can be used SATA ----> eSATA if you don't want to be limited to USB speed?
They say there's a 1tb limit on supported drives,I wanted to use a 2tb drive for time machine backups,do you know if it will work with a drive larger than 1tb?
Thanks,
KG

[supersonic]

I might add that I find CCC a more flexible backup solution as it allows me to fire up my MBP straight from the backup drive system while to my knowledge Time Machine doesn't. I have already found myself in such a situation where the main drive having failed I simply connected the backup drive externally and carried on with the session.

[supersonic]

They say there's a 1tb limit on supported drives,I wanted to use a 2tb drive for time machine backups,do you know if it will work with a drive larger than 1tb?
Thanks,
KG

They got the esata speed wrong (the slowest one being 1,5Gb/s) so they might have gotten the other one as well. I use another station similar to this and use 2T drives with it without a hitch.

[kgdrum]

They say there's a 1tb limit on supported drives,I wanted to use a 2tb drive for time machine backups,do you know if it will work with a drive larger than 1tb?
Thanks,
KG

They got the esata speed wrong (the slowest one being 1,5Gb/s) so they might have gotten the other one as well. I use another station similar to this and use 2T drives with it without a hitch.

Thanks for the info Supersonic,which one are you actually using?
link?

[supersonic]

Thanks for the info Supersonic,which one are you actually using?
link?

I use unytek but I wouldn't recommend it. I have had a few weird things happen in the past. I am looking at something different right now. I only use it for storage/archive. I use FireWire a Sata External Glyph drives for work or my second internal drive.

[frankf]

I bought the latest MacBook Pro 17" mainly for the screen size and the super drive.

There is only 1 FW 800 input but 3 usb and 1 TB. So far I've put a lot of VI's and sounds on the internal drive without partitions. My SAGE folder for the Spectra's are on the external 800 drive.

So now my sound card (Ensemble) is FW400 going into a 800 drive that streaming the sounds of Spectra but at 400 because of the Ensemble. That is going into the Mac. So I'm basically working at 400. Is that ok and reliable? i know that not long ago, the operating system needed to be separated from the rest and VI's sounds also but it doesn't seem as important anymore because of the speed of the processors nowadays.

I have couple of options:
1) Get rid of the Ensemble for a FW800 card, expensive!
2) Get a TB drive Expensive and not many choices
3) get a usb card since I rarely record several tracks at once.

What is your experience and thinking on this?

Thanks,

Sly

If you put the FW800 device(s) first and a FW400 interface last in your chain, you will get FW800 speed for any device prior to the FW400 device. This works for me with both Metric Halo and MOTU Audio Express. I do not recommend using bus power on any device in this setup. FW800 hub will work we'll also, but I'd try the $0 approach first.
Frank

[slybass3000]

I bought the latest MacBook Pro 17" mainly for the screen size and the super drive.

There is only 1 FW 800 input but 3 usb and 1 TB. So far I've put a lot of VI's and sounds on the internal drive without partitions. My SAGE folder for the Spectra's are on the external 800 drive.

So now my sound card (Ensemble) is FW400 going into a 800 drive that streaming the sounds of Spectra but at 400 because of the Ensemble. That is going into the Mac. So I'm basically working at 400. Is that ok and reliable? i know that not long ago, the operating system needed to be separated from the rest and VI's sounds also but it doesn't seem as important anymore because of the speed of the processors nowadays.

I have couple of options:
1) Get rid of the Ensemble for a FW800 card, expensive!
2) Get a TB drive Expensive and not many choices
3) get a usb card since I rarely record several tracks at once.

What is your experience and thinking on this?

Thanks,

Sly

If you put the FW800 device(s) first and a FW400 interface last in your chain, you will get FW800 speed for any device prior to the FW400 device. This works for me with both Metric Halo and MOTU Audio Express. I do not recommend using bus power on any device in this setup. FW800 hub will work we'll also, but I'd try the $0 approach first.
Frank

Thank you, it is good to know about the FW chain with the 400 at the end. I thought it did matter as soon as you had a 400 device in the chain, everything was working at 400.

I might go with the SSD and taking out the Super drive and put my actual 750Go in its place.

[kgdrum]

A great link I seem to post about once a year from MetricHalo is a good way to understand how to get the best results with FireWire,I recommend you read this if you have any FW questions.

http://www.mhsecure.com/technotes/TechN ... N_0010.php

[frankf]

As an MH user, this link is the source of my post also. Thanks for posting it, kg.

[slybass3000]

A great link I seem to post about once a year from MetricHalo is a good way to understand how to get the best results with FireWire,I recommend you read this if you have any FW questions.

http://www.mhsecure.com/technotes/TechN ... N_0010.php

Yes thanks for the link.

But I made some tests with the Speed Drive app on the FW chain and when I put the Apogee FW400 at the end of the chain, I loose half the speed