Best Mastering Plug-In
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This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
- tommymandel
- Posts: 1055
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Best Mastering Plug-In
I'm using MW Compressor into MW Limiter. One client called me "Too Low-Fi for Broadcast." I am aware that it's how you set these things that separates the Silk from the Crunch, but I'd just like to find out here, what people are using, and like the best. Thanks!
DP 11.03 12core(5,1): 64GB/10.13.6, two 24i/o's, two 2408mk3's, 4pre, MicroLite-- MBP 2015 16GB/ 2TB 'Blade SSD 10.14.4, Mainstage, Numa C2x, ReMOTE SL -- SupDrmr, 32 Lives, SampleTron,Keyscape,MTronPro,RolCloud,Icarus,Dune,OB-E; Clearmountain Domain,Soundtoys,AdrenaLinnSync, LinnSequencers,Tempest, Montage, JU80, Sledge, Prophet-X, OB-6 V-Synth, s70xs, D-50, TS-10, JD800, Karma, Pa-1x B3, Wurly, Mason Hamlin.
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- Dwetmaster
- Posts: 3491
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- Location: Montreal Canada
Re: Best Mastering Plug-In
I use mainly a mixture of MWEQ
Izotope Ozone 5 advanced
PSP Vintage Warmer
I heard great things about Voxengo Elephant for maximizing purposes
Izotope Ozone 5 advanced
PSP Vintage Warmer
I heard great things about Voxengo Elephant for maximizing purposes
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DP8.04, Bidule, M5 3, Ethno 2, BPM 1.5 Kontakt4, BFD2, SD2, Omnisphere, Wave Arts P-S5, Altiverb7, PSP VW & OldTimer, VB3, Ivory 2 Grand, True Pianos, Ozone 5, Reason 4, AmpliTube3, Bla bla bla...
A few El & Ac basses & Guitars, Hammond A-100.
- mikehalloran
- Posts: 15409
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Re: Best Mastering Plug-In
As George Martin said, "All you need is ears".
Nothing wrong with what you are using. The MW Compressor has built in quirks that one really needs to understand to get the best use - it doesn't behave like the other kids. There is a recent thread on this and detailed explanation in the documentation.
Many of us use Izotope's Ozone, currently v.5. Izotope has a ton of tutorials on YouTube and you can download for evaluation.
Understanding your tools is the key, IMO.
I am one of those who uses such effects until I can hear the results - then I back off 40% or so - unless I am mixing for Christian radio. KLOV stations squeeze the life out of the sound to get maximum range out of all those 10W stations that broadcast their signal - I give them a mix that they cannot harm anymore than I have already but, since I did it first, I have control.
Nothing wrong with what you are using. The MW Compressor has built in quirks that one really needs to understand to get the best use - it doesn't behave like the other kids. There is a recent thread on this and detailed explanation in the documentation.
Many of us use Izotope's Ozone, currently v.5. Izotope has a ton of tutorials on YouTube and you can download for evaluation.
Understanding your tools is the key, IMO.
I am one of those who uses such effects until I can hear the results - then I back off 40% or so - unless I am mixing for Christian radio. KLOV stations squeeze the life out of the sound to get maximum range out of all those 10W stations that broadcast their signal - I give them a mix that they cannot harm anymore than I have already but, since I did it first, I have control.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.5 b4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
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- tommymandel
- Posts: 1055
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Re: Best Mastering Plug-In
thanks, and thanks!!
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
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Hardware rig: http://www.tommymandel.com/famous.html/tmrig.html"
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-
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Re: Best Mastering Plug-In
I've been happy with the results using the Masterworks EQ along with Waves' Renaissance Compressor and L1 Limiter. (Before I got the L1, I used George Yohng's clone of the L1, the W1.)
I was unable to get the results I wanted with the MW Limiter - couldn't get rid of artifacts like pumping and 'crunchiness.' But that could certainly be due to my lack of skill. Though I've mastered a few projects, I make no claims to being a mastering engineer!
I was unable to get the results I wanted with the MW Limiter - couldn't get rid of artifacts like pumping and 'crunchiness.' But that could certainly be due to my lack of skill. Though I've mastered a few projects, I make no claims to being a mastering engineer!
Bob
M1 Max Mac Studio - 64 GB RAM - macOS 14.5
MacBook Pro (15-inch, Mid 2012) - 2.6 GHz Intel Core i7 - 16 GB RAM - macOS 14.4 via Open Core Legacy Patcher
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- Gravity Jim
- Posts: 2006
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:55 am
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: Best Mastering Plug-In
Best results with least pain, for me, at any rate, has been Waves Linear Phase Multiband Compressor and Waves L3 Maximizer.
Jim Bordner
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Re: Best Mastering Plug-In
I'm hardly a mastering engineer either, but I would also recommend Ozone 5, the regular version. There's a lot to access at the touch of a button that can make a difference in your mix and you'll learn a lot by experimenting.
One thing I have learned is that it's important to back off your channels to avoid overloading your master buss. That gives you some room to experiment and the limiter assures that your mixes will be adequately loud. Any distortion created by overloading the buss or individual channels will be magnified by the limiter and master buss compression.
As Mike said, find something you like and then back it off by 20-40%. Ozone makes this easy. There are also some interesting presets on the individual modules that can change the warmth and tone and eq in ways you may not have thought up on your own.
Learn by doing.
Tobor
One thing I have learned is that it's important to back off your channels to avoid overloading your master buss. That gives you some room to experiment and the limiter assures that your mixes will be adequately loud. Any distortion created by overloading the buss or individual channels will be magnified by the limiter and master buss compression.
As Mike said, find something you like and then back it off by 20-40%. Ozone makes this easy. There are also some interesting presets on the individual modules that can change the warmth and tone and eq in ways you may not have thought up on your own.
Learn by doing.
Tobor
iMac 2.7 i5, DP 9.5.1, 10.13.3, Apollo Twin, 828, MTPAV, Toontrack, Spectrasonics, BFD3, Drumcore, Reason 10, Live 10, Logic X, Spitfire, Zebra, Miroslav, Waves, Kronos X, MOXF 6, Axiom 49.
- James Steele
- Site Administrator
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Re: Best Mastering Plug-In
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- buzzsmith
- Posts: 3097
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Re: Best Mastering Plug-In
I've learned that when mixing a pretty hot pop or country tune, I crank up the monitor volume pretty loud and get just the kick drum to hit about -18 to -12 on the meters. Everything else is pulled completely down...just listening to the kick. (The louder monitor lets me "feel" it.)Tobor wrote:I'm hardly a mastering engineer either, but I would also recommend Ozone 5, the regular version. There's a lot to access at the touch of a button that can make a difference in your mix and you'll learn a lot by experimenting.
One thing I have learned is that it's important to back off your channels to avoid overloading your master buss. That gives you some room to experiment and the limiter assures that your mixes will be adequately loud. Any distortion created by overloading the buss or individual channels will be magnified by the limiter and master buss compression.
As Mike said, find something you like and then back it off by 20-40%. Ozone makes this easy. There are also some interesting presets on the individual modules that can change the warmth and tone and eq in ways you may not have thought up on your own.
Learn by doing.
Tobor
Then I add in a few more things and then back down the monitors to a gentler listening level.
This usually gives me enough headroom for whatever mastering plugs that I want to put on the Master.
If I mis-guessed (and automation is already drawn in) I'll trim each channel down by an equal amount to get the headroom back.
YMMV...
Buzzy
Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1>5,1 3.33 GHz Hex Core Intel Xeon OS X 10.8.5 SSD (32 gigs RAM)
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DP 9.51 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV
Yamaha C7 Conservatory Grand
Hammond B-3 / Leslie 145
Focal Twin6 Be(s)
Re: Best Mastering Plug-In
That Trim control is one of the handiest and important tools you already have- I use it on just about every channel and Master buss.buzzsmith wrote: I've learned that when mixing a pretty hot pop or country tune, I crank up the monitor volume pretty loud and get just the kick drum to hit about -18 to -12 on the meters. Everything else is pulled completely down...just listening to the kick. (The louder monitor lets me "feel" it.)
Then I add in a few more things and then back down the monitors to a gentler listening level.
This usually gives me enough headroom for whatever mastering plugs that I want to put on the Master.
If I mis-guessed (and automation is already drawn in) I'll trim each channel down by an equal amount to get the headroom back.
YMMV...
Buzzy
Tobor
iMac 2.7 i5, DP 9.5.1, 10.13.3, Apollo Twin, 828, MTPAV, Toontrack, Spectrasonics, BFD3, Drumcore, Reason 10, Live 10, Logic X, Spitfire, Zebra, Miroslav, Waves, Kronos X, MOXF 6, Axiom 49.
- tommymandel
- Posts: 1055
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Re: Best Mastering Plug-In
Taking heed of these great posts, I just instantiated a Trim plug-in on a channel (not the Master), set it to -3.20db, and then copied by option dragging, it to every channel strip. But when I checked the copies, they were at 0.00db. Is that a 'feature' that I should know about, or was it more likely a careless error on my part? thanks again all good posters here!
DP 11.03 12core(5,1): 64GB/10.13.6, two 24i/o's, two 2408mk3's, 4pre, MicroLite-- MBP 2015 16GB/ 2TB 'Blade SSD 10.14.4, Mainstage, Numa C2x, ReMOTE SL -- SupDrmr, 32 Lives, SampleTron,Keyscape,MTronPro,RolCloud,Icarus,Dune,OB-E; Clearmountain Domain,Soundtoys,AdrenaLinnSync, LinnSequencers,Tempest, Montage, JU80, Sledge, Prophet-X, OB-6 V-Synth, s70xs, D-50, TS-10, JD800, Karma, Pa-1x B3, Wurly, Mason Hamlin.
Hardware rig: http://www.tommymandel.com/famous.html/tmrig.html"
Hardware rig: http://www.tommymandel.com/famous.html/tmrig.html"
-
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Re: Best Mastering Plug-In
AFAIK, there is no right or wrong in mixing. If it sounds good, and doesn't sound like it's clipping, then fine. Don't mix with your eyes, that's my mantra.
Here's a little story - the first 24-track studio I apprenticed at, my first
official mixing project was a heavy metal band, because the studio's owner/engineer hated metal and wanted to take the day off. So I mixed with
the 24-track with the heads set to sync instead of repro, which was not
"correct". He came back the next day and listened to the mix and asked me
what I had the heads set to and when I told him he went, "awww, man, that's
totally wrong - but how did you get it to sound so good anyway?"
My other mantra is, a good master is always a function of a good mix.
If you've done your mix right, then in mastering there really shouldn't be
anything to do other than make it louder.
Here's a little story - the first 24-track studio I apprenticed at, my first
official mixing project was a heavy metal band, because the studio's owner/engineer hated metal and wanted to take the day off. So I mixed with
the 24-track with the heads set to sync instead of repro, which was not
"correct". He came back the next day and listened to the mix and asked me
what I had the heads set to and when I told him he went, "awww, man, that's
totally wrong - but how did you get it to sound so good anyway?"
My other mantra is, a good master is always a function of a good mix.
If you've done your mix right, then in mastering there really shouldn't be
anything to do other than make it louder.
2019 Mac Pro 8-core, 32GB RAM, Mac OS Ventura, MIDI Express 128, Apogee Duet 3, DP 11.2x, Waves, Slate , Izotope, UAD, Amplitube 5, Tonex, Spectrasonics, Native Instruments, Pianoteq, Soniccouture, Arturia, Amplesound, Acustica, Reason Objekt, Plasmonic, Vital, Cherry Audio, Toontrack, BFD, Yamaha Motif XF6, Yamaha Montage M6, Korg Kronos X61, Alesis Ion,Sequential Prophet 6, Sequential OB-6, Hammond XK5, Yamaha Disklavier MK 3 piano.
http://www.davepolich.com
http://www.davepolich.com
- mikehalloran
- Posts: 15409
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Re: Best Mastering Plug-In
Those artifacts are actually intended as part of the design. Here is the thread I was referring to:BobK wrote:I've been happy with the results using the Masterworks EQ along with Waves' Renaissance Compressor and L1 Limiter. (Before I got the L1, I used George Yohng's clone of the L1, the W1.)
I was unable to get the results I wanted with the MW Limiter - couldn't get rid of artifacts like pumping and 'crunchiness.' But that could certainly be due to my lack of skill. Though I've mastered a few projects, I make no claims to being a mastering engineer!
http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... +1#p425477
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.5 b4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
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- Prime Mover
- Posts: 2439
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Re: Best Mastering Plug-In
Funny thing is, this confused me about the definition of "Mastering" for the longest time. People and books would explain about overall EQing, ways of bringing certain instruments out, etc. And I always thought, "wait, isn't that what a mixer is supposed to do?" Then it hit me, a good deal of what we call "Mastering" is just correcting mixing mistakes. Kinda silly if you ask me, the RIGHT way that we should all aim for is to do it right the first time, and as David said, let the masters just make it louder.David Polich wrote:My other mantra is, a good master is always a function of a good mix.
If you've done your mix right, then in mastering there really shouldn't be
anything to do other than make it louder.
In fact, I would imagine that if you're a really really talented mixer, than self-mastering shouldn't be out of the question. Out of all the jobs that mastering engineers usually perform, I would imagine that basic dynamic smoothing and loudening on a well-mixed album is one of the easiest jobs they perform.
Then again, sometimes it's just good to have another set of ears to do the final touches, one that hasn't been listening to the recording for weeks on end.
— Eric Barker
Eel House
"All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio"
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Eel House
"All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio"
MacPro 1,1 2Ghz 7GB RAM OS 10.6.8 | MacBook Pro 13" i5 1.8Ghz 16GB RAM OS 10.8.2
DP7/8 | Komplete 7 | B4II | Korg Legacy Analog | Waves v9 (various) | Valhalla Room | EWQLSO Gold
MOTU 828mkII | MOTU 8pre | Presonus BlueTube | FMR RNC
Themes: Round is Right and Alloy
-
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Re: Best Mastering Plug-In
That thread is about the MW Leveler; I'm talking about the MW Limiter.mikehalloran wrote:Those artifacts are actually intended as part of the design. Here is the thread I was referring to:BobK wrote:I've been happy with the results using the Masterworks EQ along with Waves' Renaissance Compressor and L1 Limiter. (Before I got the L1, I used George Yohng's clone of the L1, the W1.)
I was unable to get the results I wanted with the MW Limiter - couldn't get rid of artifacts like pumping and 'crunchiness.' But that could certainly be due to my lack of skill. Though I've mastered a few projects, I make no claims to being a mastering engineer!
http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... +1#p425477
Bob
M1 Max Mac Studio - 64 GB RAM - macOS 14.5
MacBook Pro (15-inch, Mid 2012) - 2.6 GHz Intel Core i7 - 16 GB RAM - macOS 14.4 via Open Core Legacy Patcher
DP 11.23
Metric Halo ULN-8 mk4
M1 Max Mac Studio - 64 GB RAM - macOS 14.5
MacBook Pro (15-inch, Mid 2012) - 2.6 GHz Intel Core i7 - 16 GB RAM - macOS 14.4 via Open Core Legacy Patcher
DP 11.23
Metric Halo ULN-8 mk4