Keyboard Controller

[westla]

My my trust PC88 has finally played it's last notes.

So I'm looking for a new keyboard controller for my studio. I like hammer action keys, and 88 notes.

I remember when I got my PC88, composers were getting either the PC88 or the Yamaha KX88, what's the keyboard composers are using now?

Any suggestions?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

For studio and road, I like my PC2x from Kurzweil. My PC88 is still my main road "workhorse" ax and I would buy the new PC3x if I needed to.

But don't throw that old PC88 out just yet. Mine "died" several years ago and I bought the PC2. Since I was about to trash the PC88, I decided to open it up and try reseating the chips. That was all that was wrong with it. It hit a bump on load out and a chip got loose. Open it up, press firmly on all the chips and see if that starts it up again. Unless you burned out a circuit board, you might be able to resurrect that kbd and save yourself a bunch of $$$ or at least have a back up. If nothing else, keep it (or sell it) for parts.

[HCMarkus]

Yamaha S90Es or SX are tough to beat these days...

[mhschmieder]

What are you using it for? Is it strictly for studio work, and only for the keybed action and not for any of the sounds?

As others have said, make sure whether you can salvage what you have first.

Otherwise, ask yourself what your needs are. It's pretty silly to start offering advice until we know what you need/want.

Here are some criteria:

1. sounds or controller-only -- important or not (and which categories)
2. new or used (e.g. Oberheim had a great controller, sometimes on eBay)
3. balanced or graded hammer action (the latter is more like a piano)
4. quick escapement, even if it means the action is slightly lighter?
5. must it be effectively silent (no key noise)
6. does quality even matter, or just the cheapest 88 weighted keys
7. do you need MIDI zones or is one enough (e.g. Studiologic is 1 zone)
8. will this also serve as a digital piano, or a composing workstation

I could go on, but that's a start. There aren't that many 88-key boards out there, past or present, so it's pretty easy to narrow it down, but there are some broad categories that I can't even guess which one your needs fall into yet. From the PC88 decision, I might "guess" a Digital Piano with graded action might be your preference.

[mhschmieder]

I'm writing this separately so it doesn't pollute the post with questions in it.

I've been through almost every digital 88-board there is, whether through owning or using a friend's to really feel it out, so there are few that I don't have intimate familiarity with. A few other forumites have as deep or deeper experience with the playing field. So you'll get a flood of helpful advice once you list your criteria.

Given that context of experience though, I am finding the Kurzweil PC3x to be one of the best compromises ever, in the digital keyboard arena. It is balanced vs. graded action, but many graded action keyboards have zones of sudden gradation change vs. continuous like a real piano anyway. The PC3x has a custom action from Fatar that is tweaked from one of their two or three highest-end OEM actions available. Escapement is very fast. Action is slightly light, but there's a soft landing so fatigue is unlikely.

Sounds-wise, it's hard to beat, as it's essentially a souped-up K2600. Yamaha beats them on certain categories like guitar and bass, probably drums, and also ethnic sounds, but that's about it. A few isolated woodwinds and brass seem to get pulled off a bit more convincingly by Yamaha as well, but Kurzweil can't be beat for strings, certain brass and woodwinds, and also song-specific emulations of e-pianos. They're also now quite competitive in Virtual Analog synths with the PC3x, as it contains the mother board from the never-released VA-1 synth.

Expensive, but occasional rebates (the recent one may have just ended), and sometimes found used (I bought mine from a local musician).

The Yamaha MOTIF/S90 series is excellent as well but has different strengths, and slower escapement if you play styles with fast repeated notes. Pretty good action otherwise though, but not as soft of a landing. I never really got fatigued on mine, but if you're used to Kurzweil keybeds (which are primarily from Fatar), you will probably find Yamaha keybeds quite a bit different (they're all in-house, and a bit heavier overall).

In terms of controller capability, the Kurzweil PC3x can't be beat, but Yamaha is quite capable as well. Still, Kurzweil is king of MIDI and always has been. The ultimate controller-only keybed was the MIDIboard from the 80's, often found on the used market, but it weights 80 pounds or more, and I don't personally like its action as it wiggles from side to side as it was trying to simultaneously satisfy pianists, synthesists, organ players, and a few other categories. But this is where Kurzweil first made their mark by being one of the few vendors to ever implement the full MIDI spec in one board. It even had polyphonic aftertouch (which some argue is a bad feature as it can be confusing).

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I also suggest looking at a Motif XS6. It's about the same price range as the Kurz PC3, but a lot heavier to lug to gigs and needs a much bigger case.

[westla]

Thanks for the replies.

It is strictly going to live in my studio controlling all my VI's. No sounds needed, and if it doesn't have good faders (for MIDI volume when playing lines into DP), Ican always pickup an Alpha Channel or the like.

I was actually thinking about not spending as much on the new controller, maybe a Studiologic SL-990 Pro, and then picking up a couple new VI's. (The new Spectransonics Bass VI, looks interesting).

[mhschmieder]

So it's mostly for non-piano sounds then?

In other words, it isn't critical that it can support three momentary pedals (or even one to three tri-position or continuous pedals for even more realistic piano tri-pedal emulation)?

VERY few controllers or 88-key boards support piano tri-pedals -- this is usually a feature relegated to Digital Pianos. The PC3x does support it on its back panel, though few if any of its factory presets take advantage of this (it can be programmed, but it is hard to make it account for continuous damper pedals).

Your needs sound far more simple, and if you are primarily triggering synths or even orchestral libraries, a lighter touch may be slightly beneficial, even if not an unweighted or semi-weighted action.

Many cheaper options abound, but the sad truth is that most controller-only keyboards are not so well built these days. Even so, they are cheap to buy and cheap to replace, on the whole.

Several of us have owned the Studiologic VMK188plus, which has a hefty action with good escapement, but only one MIDI zone. IT also uses a wall wart or floor lump (I forget which) vs. a standard IEC with built-in power supply. Less critical at home, where the plug will not come out as easily and where that will not kill the gig or produce embarassment.

The cheaper SL990 isn't THAT much cheaper for me to recommend it over the VMK188plus, and has a much lighter action. I forget its feature set but that's easy to look up. It's often easy to find used, on rebate, etc. The VMK series has another advantage though, in that it uses weighted keys throughout its range of models, if you find that you can get away with fewer than 88 keys but want the weighted action.

CME also makes controllers with fairly professional action, and some smaller keyboards with weighted action as well, but most of us who have owned them have felt there was too much flakiness with the MIDI implementation and even the power delivery. This may have improved recently, but once bitten twice shy. You might find one to try at a local store though, as their distribution has been widening of late.

Akai has a new 88-key board, but it's a bit pricey and I personally felt the action wasn't heavy enough to feel at all piano-like. That might not matter to you. The new Akai controller series is probably the most complete of current offerings in terms of knobs, pads, sliders, intuitiveness and directness of feature implementation and MIDI specs.

E-Mu is said to be coming out with an 88-key controller as well, but I think it is to be regular synth-action. Maybe semi-weighted? I've personally had trouble getting USB drivers to work -- especially on the Mac -- with previous E-Mu controllers, but maybe they've gotten better with this newest line-up.

And that brings up the point that some controllers are USB-only, meaning they don't give you the option of powering from the mains vs. from phantom power delivered by USB, and often don't let you use a standard MIDI cable and connect to a firewire interface or an interface of your choosing. I find this far too limiting, and at the very least it means you have no backup solution should the vendors' drivers or software go south or become a problem. I recommend evaluating your preferences on this score and paying attention to those specs.

[mhschmieder]

Also, don't overlook the Casio Privia series, including the new PX-3.

The newest Privia's have a brand-new keybed action that rivals the best in the business, with fast escapement and a firm feel. Some of the higher-end models have textured keys, which may help dexterity.

This is probably the most affordable way to get into a newer 88-key controller without sacrificing quality, features, or keyboard feel.

[HCMarkus]

Strap your Casio down to your keyboard stand. All the ones I've played are so light that they don't feel substantial unless attached to something heavy.

As a guy who performs live quite often, I find the Yamaha ES/SX series approach to FX processing (up to eight patches with full FX at once) is a real boon. I also love the ES series breath controller input, and use this unique controller to great effect, often to the amazement of both fans and fellow band members.

Finally, the S90ES acoustic piano is simply wonderful, IMHO.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Casio?

[Shooshie]

Strap your Casio down to your keyboard stand. All the ones I've played are so light that they don't feel substantial unless attached to something heavy.

As a guy who performs live quite often, I find the Yamaha ES/SX series approach to FX processing (up to eight patches with full FX at once) is a real boon. I also love the ES series breath controller input, and use this unique controller to great effect, often to the amazement of both fans and fellow band members.

Finally, the S90ES acoustic piano is simply wonderful, IMHO.

Can't beat breath control!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Strap your Casio down to your keyboard stand.

A Casio strap on...

[HCMarkus]

Strap your Casio down to your keyboard stand.

A Casio strap on...

Brings new meaning to the term "automation."

[mhschmieder]

Casio is a great brand today, and many feel they now make the best digital pianos. It is always good to maintain an open mind about brands and not let the past prejudice the future -- except for maybe B**r.

Good reminder about Breath Control, which Yamaha decided to drop support for (unless you buy an older model). Kurzweil PC3 series supports it still, and also has, IIRC, up to 16 KDFX effects layers.

Kurzweil also sells a long strip-style ribbon controller (only compatible with their keyboards though as it has an Ethernet/telephone-style terminator), three momentary switch inputs and three CC-style inputs. If you want to go controller-crazy, this is the way to go right now.

There's also an LE version with the same action but less expandability and inputs. And I think they announced they're coming out with a controller-only keyboard, though it might not use as high-end of an action.

Something to keep in mind is that the controller-only market is presumed to be less sophisticated and less specific in its needs. Only Studiologic and CME (and possibly also now Akai with their MPK88) address the more professional-level needs of players who want to buy a keyboard without any sounds.

Price-wise, it's not that hard anyway to find a decent action 88-key keyboard with sounds, for the same or cheaper as a controller-only model.

I forgot to mention the controller-only Yamaha KX8. They used an inferior action on it from their bottom-end budget digital piano, and it is seriously crippled in many ways. Many of us are hoping they'll "get it right" with a Rev2 soon -- it was being blown out earlier, but now seems to be firmly back in the catalog, so it's hard to see where they're going with that model. It ain't no KX88, that's for sure!