First serious mixer/console advice

[Aerica]

Alll right. Ive been renovating a space for a small music studio, and after a year of being covered in soot, sawdust, plaster, and god knows what else, the construction is finally done. Now I've got this beautiful big control room desk my father and I made from vermont pine slab, and nothing to put on it! So I'm in a position to buy a real console for the first time, and i have some ideas about it, but would really appreciate someone with more experience to tell me whether or not these ideas are workable.

I have a Mac Pro, an HD192, starting out with Logic and Cubase, and a pitifully small budget. Heres my idea for getting around this, tell me if it makes sense.

Since i might not have the cash, but i do have the time to look, and even the skill to clean and re solder... I was thinking of finding an old vintage console (preferably with some of those nice old preamps), to handle the recording levels, moniter mixes, outboard gear what have you going in and out of the HD192.

Then, additionally, i was thinking of starting out with a control surface or 2, few Behringer BCF2000s on the side, i really like having those flying faders for arranging and mastering...

Does this make sense?

And if i was to start digging around for an old console, are there any suggestions for one to look for? I used a vintage soundcraft for awhile a very long time ago, and i remember loving how nice and simple it was set up with the groups, and that eq.

I've found a lot like this : http://westernmass.craigslist.org/msg/1774569197.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Any opinions, or ideas on what i should be focusing on?

[HCMarkus]

Buy some pres and a monitor controller and shine the console. And try DP out while you're at it... if can handle signal routing in a vintage counsel, you will have no trouble getting around DP, as it handles I/O and bussing like a console. DP can also serve as a front-end for Pro Tools.

[Aerica]

Hmmm, Markus, some interesting advice to chew on. I did check out DP5 last year, and though i didnt get to the routing, I found the editing tools very hard to get used to, compared to Cubase, Logic, or Pro Tools.

It is sort of hard to wrap my brain around doing everything virtually. I guess for most recordings i probably wont need more than 12 inputs at a time, which is one nice thing about an analog mixer.

And i guess, even with outboard gear and assorted tie panels in the live room and god knows where else i think of, i could swing just a patch bay instead of a mixer? I guess with enough rows of patch bay i could arrange for any outboard gear and mic ins to be routed through whatever analog stuff, and to their proper input on the HD192.

hmmmmm.

[David Polich]

I think you're answering your own questions.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to go "old school" with a
mixer and a patch bay. Then it's just a matter of finding
the mixer you want at a price you can afford. That's pretty much
it.

Some people still prefer a mixer in their studio - I'm one of
those. Mainly because I have a lot of hardware keyboards to
plug into it, a second computer's audio interface to plug into
it, and from time to time I record duos or trios live in my
room. There are also "control surfaces" available, some the
size of very large mixing consoles, with mic preamps, that
also can be used to control DP's faders, pans, effects and
automation.

A mixer allows you to record directly into DP and monitor your
input with no latency, which is a big plus. Most audio interfaces
these days have some sort of zero-latency monitoring, including
MOTU's line of audio interfaces. The question really is whether you
prefer to operate the audio interface via a GUI on your computer
screen, or on the little front panel of the audio interface itself.
Either way, there is no question it is easier to move a fader or
pan something or adjust an aux send on a physical mixer or control
surface.

Unless you're planning on installing an SSL G-series desk or a Neve
console, I don't see the need for a patch bay at all. Most smaller format
mixers have all the patching you need built in, either top-mounted or
rear-mounted. I prefer top-mounted patching, it's easier to see and get to.
The rest of your patching will be done internally in DP anyway.

[James Steele]

Hmmm, Markus, some interesting advice to chew on. I did check out DP5 last year, and though i didnt get to the routing, I found the editing tools very hard to get used to, compared to Cubase, Logic, or Pro Tools.

Are you using MOTU hardware then? I wonder what brings you here since this is essentially a MOTU/DP oriented board?

[Aerica]

James Steel- Yes indeed, i am using MOTU Hardware (pci-424 and HD192), and despite being slightly traumatized by the sort of elusive tech support, i still have a lot of brand loyalty to MOTU. I feel a similar way about the city of Cambridge itself, really (im frequently near their headquarters), a wariness about the aloofness of the place, and a respect for the intelligence and creativity packed inside!

David Polich- thank you for such a thoughtful response, its more complicated than i thought designing a layout, to start out with, specifically because there are SO many variables and different ways of doing things. I now realize how much i took for granted being in studios that were already set up, or working in my own. And theres such a huge difference between setting up a project studio for myself, and setting up a studio that can account for as many different recording situations as possible.

Ive got a big new 600 foot reel of decent microphone cable, and still dont know, besides a lot of balanced xlr to this or that, exactly what connectors to get! Im trying to prepare for gear i dont have yet, and clients ive never met.

My idea behind the patch bay was to try to make setup as quick as i could, allowing for what my modest little studio has to offer, which is a lot of vintage instruments, including synths and organs, to play with. especially since i have yet to put insulation in the live room, I wanted to have a lot of built in wall plates around the room, maybe in other rooms, a few in the basement if i get around to building an echo chamber, so that if anyone wanted to hook up this or that, i could do so using shorter instrument cables into the tie panels, as opposed to longer ones. so if theres, say, 30 built in connections coming from here or there, and only 12 inputs on the HD192, i would rather have some way of routing the inputs via a mixer or patch bay, right, than running a bunch of cables around all the time?

haha ok i guess i should go back to work. thanks guys

[Phil O]

Ive got a big new 600 foot reel of decent microphone cable, and still dont know, besides a lot of balanced xlr to this or that, exactly what connectors to get!

Well as far as brands is concerned, I'm a big Neutrik fan myself, but everyone has their favorites. Or were you just talking about a parts list for the studio in general?

Phil

[Aerica]

Phil- Looooooove Neutrik, as pricey as they are. I did mean the parts side of things. I dont want to be making anything too fancy till im sure. or, well, halfway sure. or, until theres a box lot of connectors on ebay that is just too good to pass up.

[Phil O]

Yeah, I hear ya. It's tough to know exactly what you'll need and there will always be that one connector that you need to hook up some essential piece of gear...and you don't have it. Then you wait two days to get the connector make the cable and hook it up. In other words, expect delays.

Also, if you haven't yet, check out the Easy Strip audio cable from Gepco. It's great for permanent installation work, and very easy to work with.

Phil

[glea]

I came to DP from a tape based 16 track set up. My brother is a DP user and told me what I needed: 2408 and a 24i/o. This meant a new board, as I was working with a Tascam 520... I was happy to spend the bux and rebuild my studio. I have loads of outboard gear, so a patch bay has always been a part of my set up. I use both the board pre's and my out board pre's.

I record bands, mostly artists on our label, but I still do a fair amount of outside work. A board is the way I work. I need hands on control and plenty or routing options.

It took me about three weeks to rewire my set up. I was very happy to upgrade my stuff. I found a 32 chan Ghost used, and scoured around on eBay for patch bays, and a 16 input mic panel. I can see that this might be too much for a modest budget, but I had the money and it's what I do.

Our bass player had a very awkward hard disc set up, but after his first session at my place he decided to leap into DP. He's got a mirror studio, with a 24 chan Mackie. I think he's pretty happy now that he's getting his head around the concept. Now we can work here or over in Billings and move stuff back and forth with no complications. We both work in a sort of hybrid fashion, using all the functions of DP and a board with our outboard gear.

Another thread was talking about working with Logic as well. I do this too. I like the soft synths and I find I can do some things faster in Logic. Once I get a demo sorted out, I move it to DP and do the main work there. Audio editing is a lot easier in DP, it's more like tape to my mind. I have no problem dumping a rough mix back to Logic to add Logic instrument overdubs... I covert the MIDI tracks to audio and load them back to DP.

This makes perfect sense to me. Use all the tools available. I guess I am lucky I had the resources and the space to build the studio I wanted. I suppose that is the beauty of modern technology, you can scale it to your budget and needs.