Slow waveform drawing in 7.12

[philbrown]

Here's what I wrote to MOTU:

I drag a lot of large files into DP in my work. The background processing of waveforms is taking several times longer with DP7.12 and a new 8 core MacPro than it does with 5.13 and a G4 (or my G5). Plus the waves in 7.12 look low res and blocky compared with 5.13 and are hard to work with when zoomed in. I have had to roll back (again) to DP 5.13 until this these issues are resolved as it's noticeably slowing down my deadline work.

MOTU's response:

In DP 7.12, changes were made to the generation and storage of waveform overviews. Although the initial construction is longer, these changes lend to overall stability and a more robust application.

With that in mind, I can certainly make note of your objection. Also, if you follow the link for Company on http://www.motu.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and select the link to Contact MOTU, there is a Suggestion Box. Here you can submit ideas for features you wish to see implemented in the future.

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If this issue affects you at all in your work, PLEASE write to MOTU. I am really disappointed about this especially after spending $6K on a new MacPro and upgrading to DP 7.12 and actually have my bread and butter work noticeably slowed down from my old G5. Like I stated above, even my old G4/5.13 is 2 or 3 times faster. I tried rolling back to 5.13 on this new MacPro and it's crashing all the time so now I don't know what to do. Roll back to Tiger to run 5.13? Geez Louise. I'm temporarily working back on my G5 until I have time to suss this out. I had seen mention of this slow wave draw issue in a couple of thread but had no idea how extreme it was or that waves themselves look low res and difficult to work with when zoomed in, especially zoomed just a little out from full magnification where you see the actual wave. I use that zoom level constantly and the waves look like connect-the-dots instead how they used to look.

[grouse]

Do a search on this subject and you'll find it's been debated quite a bit on here. It's seems to be a bit of a sore point and some folks on here don't seem to like it mentioned.
It's far from ideal....but at least MOTU are aware of it and maybe they'll decide to sort it out in a later update.
From my own peronal point of view DP 7.0 seems to be the speediest version so maybe just go to that version,

[kassonica]

How big are your files, Phil?


Although most recordings I do are 3-5 minutes and the redraw while slower than other versions of DP, are still ok, but recently I recorded my Jam band, and some of the songs go for 10-15 minutes and the redraw was tedious, I admit.

[philbrown]

How big are your files, Phil?


Although most recordings I do are 3-5 minutes and the redraw while slower than other versions of DP, are still ok, but recently I recorded my Jam band, and some of the songs go for 10-15 minutes and the redraw was tedious, I admit.

They're around 70 minutes and I routinely deal with 8 at a time.
I think I've already decided there's no bucking the system and might as well go make a cup of coffee or something and just deal I guess.

[James Steele]

...and some folks on here don't seem to like it mentioned.

Who? We talking about the issue now, or about the board? Speaking for myself, I don't care if it's mentioned. I've only said that I am concerned about the idea that if a particular issue is mentioned over and over and over and over... that those who employ this repetition as a strategy to push MOTU to action do so at the expense of filling up the message base with redundant complaints.

[philbrown]

...and some folks on here don't seem to like it mentioned.

Who? We talking about the issue now, or about the board? Speaking for myself, I don't care if it's mentioned. I've only said that I am concerned about the idea that if a particular issue is mentioned over and over and over and over... that those who employ this repetition as a strategy to push MOTU to action do so at the expense of filling up the message base with redundant complaints.

If someone can point me to an actual thread on it I'd appreciate it. I did a search and didn't find one. I've been hanging out in the non-gripe section so I probably missed it. All I have seen is OT mentions of it in other threads. Also I never saw mentioned exactly how bad it was by way of comparison (just general bitching) or that the waveforms looked quite different (much worse) than earlier versions at certain zoom levels - I hadn't read about that issue at all. This is the first time I have mentioned it as I just now upgraded and it just now became an issue for me personally, as of last week.

My idea was - instead of just bitching about it here, if it affects you at all, please report it, because as it stands MOTU doesn't appear to care about it as something that needs to be addressed, according to their response to me anyway. The only way that will probably change is if they hear directly from a number of customers. I certainly don't rely on complaining here as a way to influence MOTU, quite the contrary.

[grouse]

...and some folks on here don't seem to like it mentioned.

Who? We talking about the issue now, or about the board? Speaking for myself, I don't care if it's mentioned. I've only said that I am concerned about the idea that if a particular issue is mentioned over and over and over and over... that those who employ this repetition as a strategy to push MOTU to action do so at the expense of filling up the message base with redundant complaints.

I wasn't talking about anyone specifically, just that it had been gone over a few times before. Some people were bummed about it and others were maybe bummed about people going on about it!

[BKK-OZ]

If someone can point me to an actual thread on it I'd appreciate it.

See here.

[philbrown]

If someone can point me to an actual thread on it I'd appreciate it.

See here.

Yeah I had read most of that in pieces I guess. Interesting the tone of that thread toward the people that are still experiencing the issue, like the Homer Simpson joke, just to give an example.

I'm estimating this will add about an hour to my workflow most weeks compared to 5.13/G5. If this issue impacted all users similarly instead of a minority, this thread or one like it would be 12 pages long I suspect. Think about some function of DP you use a lot taking 20 seconds instead of 2, or your bounces all taking 3 times longer, etc. That would be a hot-hot-hot topic. But if it doesn't affect you personally then it doesn't affect you and I understand that. MOTU seems unconcerned about it. But I'm not here to rag on them or 7.12 in general...

I am trying to be constructive and non-whining by simply saying "PLEASE write to MOTU if this affects you."

[newrigel]

Seems like until your ready to actually look for a 0 crossing or edit something, that's the only time you need to see anything but I do most of my work in 5.13 and never have an issue.
You'd think by now things would be optimized and faster, not slower. If your editing on the fly and are really fast I can see an issue though. Why couldn't you do this type of workflow in 5.13 where there isn't any issue then use 7.12 for whatever it is you really need... it's @ least just a save as and re-opening the project.

[philbrown]

Seems like until your ready to actually look for a 0 crossing or edit something, that's the only time you need to see anything but I do most of my work in 5.13 and never have an issue.
You'd think by now things would be optimized and faster, not slower. If your editing on the fly and are really fast I can see an issue though. Why couldn't you do this type of workflow in 5.13 where there isn't any issue then use 7.12 for whatever it is you really need... it's @ least just a save as and re-opening the project.

Yes I am back in 5.13 for the foreseeable future and there's no make-or-break feature that 7.12 has that I truly NEED, although there are some features I would welcome, all things being equal. I do a lot of spoken word editing that's not zoomed clear down to the samples but just zoomed out from there a bit to take care of P's popping and other anomalies. I had planned to post comparison screen shots but had to remove 7.12 from my system so 5.13 would run reliably. 5.13 was crashing but seems OK now so I'm hoping it will be reliable for a while longer. The waves were quite different looking comparing 5.13 to 7.12 at the zoom level I use, the 7.12 waves looked like the sample rate was 1000 or something - really blocky and low res looking like a connect-the-dots drawing is my best verbal description.

[bradswan]

Have you tried going back to 7.02? If my memory serves me, the backround redraw doesn't take as long. I for one am in favor of Motu leaning heavy on stability and robustness. My beef with 7.12 is the big slow down in the audio editing department. I use DP in the same way most studios use PT. As I've mentioned before, I edit a fair amount, grouping drum tracks with a good amount of processing, and find that 7.12 is clunky and slow when zoomed in even as little as 8th notes. I'm surprised that there isn't more mention of this on this board. I'm wondering just how many out there use DP to record and produce CD projects. For now I go back to 7.02 to edit, and then to 7.12 to mix. There is a dramatic difference between versions.

[philbrown]

Have you tried going back to 7.02? If my memory serves me, the backround redraw doesn't take as long. I for one am in favor of Motu leaning heavy on stability and robustness. My beef with 7.12 is the big slow down in the audio editing department. I use DP in the same way most studios use PT. As I've mentioned before, I edit a fair amount, grouping drum tracks with a good amount of processing, and find that 7.12 is clunky and slow when zoomed in even as little as 8th notes. I'm surprised that there isn't more mention of this on this board. I'm wondering just how many out there use DP to record and produce CD projects. For now I go back to 7.02 to edit, and then to 7.12 to mix. There is a dramatic difference between versions.

Interesting! Thanks for your post. I didn't know that. And I'm surprised too this isn't an issue for more people, but I always seem to be in the minority whenever there's an issue like this. Since I just upgraded DP a couple of weeks ago, my DP 7 install disc from MOTU is v7.12, so there's nothing to roll back to in my case unless I could get MOTU to send me a 7.02 disc. Another issue for me is my Stillwell plugs are broken in 7.12 and work fine in 5.13 and I use those quite a bit, especially the Rocket compressor and Vibe EQ. It's hard to know exactly what version broke what since I didn't do the incremental upgrades and jumped right to 7.12. I have 6 running on a spare VI-hosting computer but never used it for day to day work. I was basically jumping straight from 5.13 to 7.12.

I wish there was the slightest shred of hope from MOTU like "We're working on it" or even "We're aware of the issue" but there's not and probably won't be unless a bunch of us contact them about it, hint-hint.

[bradswan]

Contact Motu, I'm sure there's a way for them to get it (7.02) to you. Try not to take it personally (although I know sometimes it's hard) that Motu doesn't respond to every and everyone's request. I've been a user since the early Performer days, and have seen an honest effort on their part lately, towards better customer service and satisfaction.

[James Steele]

Another issue for me is my Stillwell plugs are broken in 7.12 and work fine in 5.13 and I use those quite a bit, especially the Rocket compressor and Vibe EQ..

What's broken about Rocket compressor? I just used it the other day in 7.12? I don't think I adjusted anything however.