Apple says computer has digital audio out, but really??

[FMiguelez]

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Hi.

According to Apple, my iMac and MacBook Pro both have a digital audio out connector. I can see them. Both are mini-plug.

But how do I make it digital (as opposed to analog)? I want to have these 2 digital outs connected to my Tascam Mixer.

IOW, how would I know the connection is being made digitally or analogue?
Does it depend on the cable I use?
If so, what kind of cable would I need to connect digitally, a mini-plug-to-SPDIF?
But then again, the SPDIF cables look like RCA cables. How do I know if it's connected digitally or analog?

The other day found a mini-plug cable, but when I connected it to my mixer to one of its plug inputs it sounded like crap (noisy and not very good).

What am I missing here?

Thanks!

[cuttime]

I'm pretty sure those mini outputs are optical. You can see for yourself at bootup in the dark. You should see a brief laser flash coming out of the stereo mini jack. You need a mini to TOSlink adapter such as this.

[FMiguelez]

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Hi, CutTime.

You mean it's optical as in a ADAT cable? Would this be 8 mono channels of independent audio too? I'd be stunned if this is so!

I'm not sure I understand that picture from your link... so that adapter is to convert what to what? A regular mini-plug to optical? What about the other side of the cable... would it be SPDIF, RCA?
And the cable per se... what kind of cable is it?

Please bear with me, guys. When it comes to these hardware things I'm not the brightest person on earth
Assume I'm I total newbie for this, please.

So without that adapter the cable would be a regular analog cable?

Thanks!

[Siryne]

No, not ADAT. Not 8 channels. It is SP/DIF on Toslink and as mentioned above, "You need a mini to TOSlink adapter". It is 2 channel stereo L&R. It is a Digital format - not analog.
Peace!

[cuttime]

The adapter should convert a stereo mini-jack to this Toslink (optical) cable:

[veracohr]

Try this:

When you put a mini-stereo plug in the combination audio jack, your computer will automatically detect the device and use the device as an analog output device.

If you want to set up the jack as an audio input device, you can manually switch from using the jack as an output device in the Sound System Preferences. Follow these steps:

1. Plug the input audio device into the audio analog jack using the proper adapter cable.
2. From the Apple () menu, choose System Preferences.
3. Choose Sound from the View menu.
4. Click the Input tab.
5. Change "Use audio for:" from "Sound Output" to the "Sound Input" option.
6. The device type should change from Internal Microphone/Built-in Input to Line In/Built-in input.

Your audio input device is now ready to use.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3625" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[FMiguelez]

No, not ADAT. Not 8 channels. It is SP/DIF on Toslink and as mentioned above, "You need a mini to TOSlink adapter". It is 2 channel stereo L&R. It is a Digital format - not analog.
Peace!

Aha!
Got it.

The adapter should convert a stereo mini-jack to this Toslink (optical) cable:

I see. That's the cable's end for the computer.
1.- And the other end would be regular SPDIF (the one that looks like RCA)?

2.- And what's the difference between a real SPDIF cable with an RCA connector, and a normal analog RCA connector?

Try this:

When you put a mini-stereo plug in the combination audio jack, your computer will automatically detect the device and use the device as an analog output device.

If you want to set up the jack as an audio input device, you can manually switch from using the jack as an output device in the Sound System Preferences. Follow these steps:

1. Plug the input audio device into the audio analog jack using the proper adapter cable.
2. From the Apple () menu, choose System Preferences.
3. Choose Sound from the View menu.
4. Click the Input tab.
5. Change "Use audio for:" from "Sound Output" to the "Sound Input" option.
6. The device type should change from Internal Microphone/Built-in Input to Line In/Built-in input.

Your audio input device is now ready to use.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3625" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ok. So with the above-mentioned adapter, the machine will automatically recognize it and provide me the digital connection between my iMac (or MacBook Pro) and my Tascam mixer, correct?

So what about my bolded couple of questions above? About number 2, I've never understood that difference about the cable and its connectors... if a typical SPDIF cable has 2 RCA connectors on both ends (like I've seen), what makes it digital as opposed to analog? Don't tell me the kind of info that travels through it...

Thank you for clearing this up for me, guys

[cloudsplitter]

Digital is a pulsed bitstream..therefore S/PDIF has a clock so to speak..and it needs to sync with another device that reads that clock to communicate...analog.....is, well, a different type of signal

[cuttime]

1.- And the other end would be regular SPDIF (the one that looks like RCA)?

What mixer are you using? No, the mixer S/PDIF end would have to be optical (Toslink); the RCA S/PDIF is not.


2.- And what's the difference between a real SPDIF cable with an RCA connector, and a normal analog RCA connector?

The only difference is a matter of spec; the S/PDIF cable is supposed to be 75 ohm coax. An RCA line cable could be anything. I've used both for short feeds successfully.

[FMiguelez]

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This is the back of the mixer where I want to connect them (Tascam DM-24).

What mixer are you using? No, the mixer S/PDIF end would have to be optical (Toslink); the RCA S/PDIF is not.

Me no comprende.
What do you mean by "the RCA S/PDIF is not"
Why would the mixer's end have to be optical?

The only difference is a matter of spec; the S/PDIF cable is supposed to be 75 ohm coax. An RCA line cable could be anything. I've used both for short feeds successfully.

So in this case then there's no way to tell what kind of connection a cable could be by just looking at it?

I guess I'm showing my green side. Thanks for the on-going "Basic Engineering for Composers" 101 lesson

[cuttime]

I don't think the Tascam will accept the Toslink cable, as ADAT LightPipe is not compatible with S/PDIF. The Mac output provides two types of data at the same jack. One is electrical, which travels over an electrically conductive coax cable and is NOT digital (is analog). The Toslink adapter taps into its optical and digital output, and must travel over a fiber optic cable. Both ends of a fiber optic connection deal with light, not electricity. The adapter does not convert electrical into optical, it merely taps into the optical portion of the Mac jack.

Maybe if this thread is moved to another forum you can get better and more constructive answers, but then who am I to argue with a moderator?

[newrigel]

If you look carefully, there is a lens on the 1/8 inch side and the connector senses the type of connector that is inserted and then you can switch to optical SPDIF TOSLINK (not to get confused with analog SPDIF) and it's just the connector that allows this. It isn't an analog 1/8 inch connector going into the mac... it is a true fiber 1/8" connector. That 1/8" jack on the back of the mac has both analog and digital outs combined in one connector. And don't be too hard on that jack either or your going to the Mac Store he he...

[cuttime]

But y'know, the Mac built in audio is just pro-sumer stuff, not to be used in pro applications. That's why we have all of these expensive interfaces.

[stephentayler]

To do what you want you might need something like this (this is a UK online store)

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=29293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I keep things like this in my kit for unexpected connections between DVD/BluRay players and sound systems...

they make one that converts the other way as well

Cheers

Stephen

[FMiguelez]

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Guys, thank you so much.
I understand all this so much better now!

I'm so glad I asked. I was just about to do something kindda dumb...

But y'know, the Mac built in audio is just pro-sumer stuff, not to be used in pro applications. That's why we have all of these expensive interfaces.

That's another good point.

Besides, it looks like the Tascam won't work without a converter anyway.... one more unwanted and unexpected expense...

You know, perhaps I'm overcomplicating myself (as usual). I mean, if I really think about it, maybe I can just use a normal analog connection... all I want to do is to just monitor reliably whatever comes out of my 2 little computers (I thought digitally would be the best and easier way).

So in theory, if I kept all the gain at nominal levels, my mixes would sound the same with a digital or analog connection, correct? As in whatever comes out of the iMac won't sound louder if connected via analog or louder if connected via digital, yes?
At the end, any audio coming out of the little slave computers will be recorded digitally anyway (by freezing or bouncing in the slave and transferring to the master computer, or simply, by recording into the master computer via VE Pro/ethernet).

Most of the time I'll be using VE Pro anyway. But for other apps that I may need to monitor "normally" (not with an Ethernet connection), 'll see if it sounds acceptable with a normal cable going into an analog input in the Tascam. But I'll use a better quality and shorter cable this time.
I'd just need to make sure my analog-monitoring is ACCURATE. Any things I should mind to accomplish this?

If I ever need to RECORD stuff from the iMac through the mixer into DP, then I'll worry about that then... I'd use what StephenTayler mentioned in that case, I suppose.

Maybe if this thread is moved to another forum you can get better and more constructive answers, but then who am I to argue with a moderator?

No. You are totally right. I should've posted this thread in the "audio forum"... or in the General Mac Forum.
Bad example on my part... sorry guys