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I don't post this to bag on MOTU or DP, I just happen to find this extremely refreshing... yes, I do wish MOTU would adopt just a tiny bit of this type of transparency
Posted by the CEO on the official company website forum....
Dear Ableton users,
Some of you have experienced and reported problems with Live 8 several months ago that we have still failed to fix. This is both painful and necessary for us to discuss. We owe you sincere apologies, as well as an explanation and outlook for the future.
Ableton values quality over innovation. Our engineers will stop whatever they are doing to fix a bug when they become aware of it. They must, however, rely on a process that prepares the incoming information and funnels it to them appropriately. Establishing and maintaining this process is the responsibility of management -- particularly us, Bernd and Gerhard -- and this is where things have gone wrong while we let our attention divert to ambitious new projects.
Our apologies also extend to both the Ableton developers and tech support colleagues because they want to be proud of software and service that users love.
We have now decided to:
suspend all development towards new features while the whole team joins forces to address the current issues. This effort is open ended and will result in a free Live 8 update;
make process changes to prevent similar situations from happening in the future.
We hope this plan finds your understanding and agreement. We'd like to wish you a very happy holiday season and a wonderful 2010!
Sounds like major issues. One thing I can say in MOTU's defense is that they always six stability issues as quickly as possible. People blasted DP 6.0, but soon we had 6.02 which was very stable for most of us. The same pattern extends back as far as I can remember. I cannot think of a version that left us hanging with an unusable app.
Some will say "oh? what about DP 4.x?" In reply to that, I have to say that the issue was primarily a MIDI driver, and possibly an audio driver as well. It was bad timing. The drivers were really made for the next version of DP, but people who installed them when they were released experienced trouble. That WAS a scary issue, but I never experienced it, because I didn't use the driver(s). Anyway, MOTU has been very responsive about stability issues in DP. A letter like the one from Ableton would not be applicable to MOTU, because they've never left a version hanging for months without fixing the major crashes.
Still, I get your point; it would be nice if MOTU could just tell us what is going on from time to time. I guess they have their reasons, for they used to do exactly that. I'm guessing that their old newsletter, reMarks, was used by their competitors to get a competitive edge, so they stopped it.
Shooshie
|l|OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0|l|2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012|l|40GB RAM|l|Mach5.3|l|Waves 9.x|l|Altiverb|l|Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l|Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes|l|Garritan Aria|l|VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l|Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller|l|Roland FC-300|l|
That is very refreshing. I haven't really used Live in a long time (I went from the beginning to ver.4) but I do like their spirit. Very few companies have that attitude.
I saw this thread on Gearslutz and I have to say I think it is great that a software company admits so openly that they must fix a problem.
All I can say is BRAVO!!
KG
2012 Mac Pro 3.46GHz 12 core 96 gig,Mojave, DP11.01,Logic 10.51, RME UCX,Great River ME-1NV,a few microphones,UAD2, Komplete 12U,U-he,Omni & way too many VI's,Synths & FX galore!, Mimic Pro w/ SD3,Focal Twin 6 monitors, Shunyata...........
The problem I see for Ableton Live is they seem to rush through each new version.
Just to say that they have a new one and perhaps get you to upgrade.
I only use Live for loop stuff and I'm still on version 6.
Here the list of 8.1.1 fixes:
• A very short MIDI note at the beginning of a clip would not be audible. [6130]
• Recording via 'Resampling' would not properly compensate latency. [6124]
Under certain conditions, it would be possible to get 2 Arranger tracks highlighted. [6144]
• Using the Launchpad as control surface and additionally for manual mappings would not always work properly.
• When installing Live Packs which have dependencies to other content, Live would show the corresponding message twice. [6153]
• Using a Rex file could crash Live. [6157]
• 'lock control surface' function would not properly work in user remote scripts. [6064]
• A particular Live set could not be loaded and would lead to a 'Invalid Product ID Error' message. [6165]
• In the Arranger, punch In/Out would delay notes by the 'punch in time' in beats. [6167]
• Using the pads of the Akai MPD18 would not work properly.
• Having a Live set with particular Drum Racks could increase the CPU usage of the main thread, which would result in very slow graphical updates. [6181]
• Installing a new Library from within a second running instance of Live could crash Live. [6171]
• Certain operations like sample crop/reverse/replace would remove the tempo envelope. [6179]
• Using Novation's Launchpad, when switching between Automap and Live control would not work properly.
• Under certain conditions, editing or creating parameter automation would not work properly. [6188]
• Playing a 32-bit audio file immediately after a 16-bit audio file could cause a click in the audio. [6152]
• Moving the last track out of a track group onto a closed group track in the Arranger could crash Live. [6193]
• In the Auto Pan device, switching shape to random would not show the 'Width' knob. [6192]
• Loading a Max device would crash if Pluggo was already active.
• It would not be possible to create a new Project in the File Browser if the root is set to 'Workspace'.
• Fine tuning of macro knobs would not work via key modifier. [6180]
• Starting clips via the Launchpad while changing parameters via mouse could crash Live. [6143]
• Moving the mouse over a certain Sampler preset could crash Live. [6207]
• Loading a Live set containing not yet authorized add-ons could crash Live. [6203]
• Under certain conditions, fade creation would not work properly. [6195]
• An Ableton preset of a third party plug-in would not change the On/Off mapping range. [5652]
• Receiving an invalid parameter index from Max could crash Live.
• Inverting a macro mapping range would not work properly. [6238]
• Under certain conditions, extracting an existing groove from a clip would crash Live. [6235]
• Having a Max device sending many blob changes during saving could crash Live.
• A malformed database file would interrupt user interactions like renaming files, saving presets, recording, etc. [6230]
• Having a particular Live set loaded and searching for media files could crash Live. [6241]
• On Mac OS X, under certain conditions, making Live the foreground window could lead to a crash.
• The context menu of a frozen clip would have enabled audio fades commands. [6253]
• In the Arranger, changing the mixer properties like volume, pan etc. would not show the changed value in the status bar. [3238]
• Having a multi selection of Arranger track and use the 'Show Automation' command would destroy the selection. [6243]
• Choosing a custom VST directory within the preferences would not keep this new directory until the next start of Live if the required rescan leads to a crash. [6190]
• On Mac OS X, duplicating a track with Fab Filter Twin 1+2 could crash Live. [6063]
• The Looper display would use the wrong colour in 'play' mode. [6234]
Holding SHIFT + Space Bar would make the transport play button flicker. [6227]
• The area to click on an Arranger clip would be too small by a few pixels. [6261]
• Particular Live sets, especially with a lot of transient data, could not be loaded. [6263]
• Pasting 3 unstretched and crossfaded Arranger clips could crash Live [6289]
azusa749a wrote:The problem I see for Ableton Live is they seem to rush through each new version.
Just to say that they have a new one and perhaps get you to upgrade.
I only use Live for loop stuff and I'm still on version 6.
I can see that. I guess that's why I stopped at 4. It still does what I wanted it to. I can't even figure out what the next 4 releases were about. Sort of how I feel about DP7, which I'm finally going to buy tonight, grudgingly.
There's nothing like being honest, straight and direct to your customers. Opening communication channels like that really helps win loyalty and credibility.
BRAVO!
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.
--------------------------- "In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
I'll chime in since I've been using Live for a long time...
Live is a much simpler program in it's intended purpose than a conventional DAW like DP.
Live's beauty is in it's simplicity.
Since version 7 there has been a growth spurt for Live and Ableton added a ton of new functionality. Some of it is to make Live more DAW-like (Fader levels, Grouped Tracks), some of it its long overdue (Loopers, Drum Racks) and some of it is completely revolutionary (Launchpad and APC40 control and MAXforLive integration). All of this growth has come with yearly upgrade costs and version updates.
Meanwhile, the stability of the app and some meat and potatoes functionality has suffered while new features appear.
For instance. Live is popular in the Electro and DJ sphere and because of Live's ease of use, many of them wish to Sync their laptops while performing live. Meanwhile the quality of sync in live has grown poor. This is unacceptable because the purpose of Live was to give rise to this culture and now the meat and potatoes functionality has begun to suffer in some circles.
Now... I have Live 8.1 on my system and I have noticed an increase in random crashing, however the amount is nothing crazy. Logic crashes about as much and DP 6 also crashed in a similar manner at times. I would say that Ableton users are actually a bit spoiled by the past stability of the program and now that it's getting bigger and more powerful the reality of supporting a mature DAW platform is hitting Ableton hard.
That said. I love the announcement and I wish all companies would be as direct and true to their original vision!
I just don't see how they are going to the core functionality and simplicity AND turn it into a full fledged DAW. I'm afraid they might hit a middle ground where they don't do either one very well.
I am first a loyal registered dp user!
However, I discovered live at ver 5, and really appreciate its workflow, functionality, and simplicity for getting ideas mapped out. I stayed at ver 7 (and am still on dp 5.13).
Live may not be for everybody, but it sure has a place in my creativity and inspiration.
Macbook pro, 3 gigs of ram, osx 10.62, Dp 5.13, Live 8.1.2, Reason 4, Tc powercore Virus, Albino 3.02, proper ergonomic sitting posture, plenty of coffee (french press only with a pinch of cardamon added)
My dp inspired music..... http://www.myspace.com/aislingbeing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://www.myspace.com/wigginsmaroo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://www.mp3.com.au/artist.asp?id=10004" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I have to support the view that Ableton customer support is first rate.
Not a tech issue. I've never had Ableton crash. not once. It was a complex licensing issue and they sorted it out quickly, efficiently and courteously. Professional. Impressive. Best in class.
