PCI-424 Interfaces no longer recognized?!

[buzzsmith]

Sorry for 1 more inquiry!

I began the process today of physically reconfiguring the studio to become mixerless in anticipation of the arrival of the PreSonus Central Station and the remote.

Carefully, moved things around to move the computer desk, etc. Nothing was bounced around or impacted.

However, now I can't get the PCI-424 card to recognize or display any of the 3 interfaces. 2408, 2408mkII and the 24I/O.
I just get a "Interface banks not visible in the PCI Audio Console".

I re-downloaded the latest PCI drivers from MOTU, to no avail.

MOTU PCI-424 OSX Install

This install provides compatibility updates for OSX 10.6, but will work with OSX 10.5 and 10.4. This version also adds PCIe-424 compatibility for the Intel Mac Pro. Installer contains drivers for PCI-424 audio systems under Mac OSX. It also adds support for MOTU PCI-424 PCIe cards. Cuemix now has control surface support, talkback and listenback capabilities, and I/O port naming.

I've double checked the connections which all seem tight between the 3 interfaces and the card.

If I do "About This Mac"/PCI I see:

pci137a,5:

Type: Audio
Driver Installed: Yes
Bus: PCI
Slot: Slot-2@7,0,0
Vendor ID: 0x137a
Device ID: 0x0005
Revision ID: 0x00ff

If i do System Preferences/Sound I do see the PCI-424 card being recognized.

According to my slightly outdated PCI-424 manual, if I see that any lights on any interface are blinking, that means I have a "communication" problem between the PCI-424 card and the audio interface(s).

I've refreshed, restarted, reseated.

Everything was fine prior to the "move".

Within DP, I get the message when trying to establish an audio input or an output: "PCI-424 No inputs (or outputs) enabled".?

The only thing I haven't tried is moving the PCI-424 card to another slot.

It's currently in the 16X slot (slot 2 which was OK until a few hours ago, when I went back online).

The next step in the Troubleshooting section is to call MOTU Technical Support which I may try early AM, but I figure the true experts are right here!

(System specifics in sig)

Thanks, yet once again!

Buzzy

[Shooshie]

Buzzy, I think I warned you about this a while back. I know of several ways to "fix" this, albeit temporary in any case. Eventually this will happen again. It's a matter of finding the easiest way to do it, and I can't guarantee that they will work for you, but I think they will.

Methods for getting your Mac to reset the PCI Bus and find the 424 card again:
1) Shut down. Unplug your Mac for 30 seconds or so. Restart. If it fails again, repeat, but before startup, power up your audio interface first.

If that fails, or if it's too difficult to unplug your Mac or power it down from a power strip, try...

2) Restart your Mac into "safe boot," with the shift key held down until the Apple Screen comes up. After it boots, restart again normally. This will reset whatever is remembering the PCI bus configuration. Again, you might have best luck if you power up your audio interface before restarting the 2nd time.

3) There's actually a 3rd way, but it rarely works: Shut down. Power up the audio interface, restart. Occasionally that will work for me. Having the audio interface looking for sync from the driver at the time the driver loads will sometimes grab it.

All that seems to be happening here is that the MOTU driver is getting out of touch with the PCI bus. This happens most often when your computer goes to sleep while the audio interface is on, or if there is a power brownout, or some other unusual event that leaves your computer having to resync its busses. It can happen with the audio interface turned on or off, but is more likely to happen if it is turned on. Strangely, it doesn't usually lose sync until you turn it off, AFTER whatever event triggered the problem. I can't think of all the behaviors, but you'll get a feel for them as you get into this. But it's pretty easy to fix, and once you fix it and have everything running, it doesn't lose sync while you're running DP or anything like that; at least it hasn't ever done that to me.

4) One other last ditch method in case all the above fail: power down the Mac, open it up, and remove the PCI-424 card. Replace it on a different slot. Restart.

Anything that forces it to rescan the PCI bus will generally fix it. I learned each one of these from trial & error (and not in the order listed here), deriving the nature of the problem from the things that fixed it, and learning to look for other fixes based on that behavior. There may yet be other ways to fix it that are easier. If you find any, please let me know!

Shoosh

[Shooshie]

PS: I'd put your MOTU card in a 1x slot. I may be mistaken, but I don't think it can utilize any more of the PCI bandwidth than that. MOTU would have to confirm that, but which ever slot into which I put the PCI-424 card becomes a 1x slot according to the Expansion Slot Utility.app, which no longer allows you to change things in Snow Leopard. (maybe it's automatic now?)

Shoosh

[Frodo]

Within DP, I get the message when trying to establish an audio input or an output: "PCI-424 No inputs (or outputs) enabled".?

This may sound silly, but have you tried *enabling* any inputs and outputs?

Try going to DP's audio hardware menu and select the 424 as your interface, then make sure you have your desired I/Os available in Bundles.

[Shooshie]

Within DP, I get the message when trying to establish an audio input or an output: "PCI-424 No inputs (or outputs) enabled".?

This may sound silly, but have you tried *enabling* any inputs and outputs?

Try going to DP's audio hardware menu and select the 424 as your interface, then make sure you have your desired I/Os available in Bundles.

When the computer doesn't see the soundcard, it can't access its APIs to change any settings. You may have a point, but I suspect it's really the old PCI-424 problem when coupled with "legacy boxes." I'm also guessing that if you added a current PCI-424 connected box, like the 192 HD, then the problem would probably go away. I cant test that theory, as all my boxes were designed for OS9. (MOTU 1296, 2408 mkII, and 896) They don't work like the newer boxes.

[philbrown]

When the computer doesn't see the soundcard, it can't access its APIs to change any settings.

Buzzsmith wrote:
Within DP, I get the message when trying to establish an audio input or an output: "PCI-424 No inputs (or outputs) enabled".?


That would indicate the computer and DP are seeing the card but the card is not seeing the interfaces and Frodo's advice might apply in that case. But it could be DP expects to see the card (reading from preferences) but isn't, so... the System Profiler would answer that preliminary question - whether the card is being seen at all.

EDIT: also could check Hardware setup in DP and the MOTU PCI control panel

Cheers
Phil

[buzzsmith]

Thanks, but still no luck.

I did make an early phone call to MOTU and got a tech that asked:
1. Is the System Preferences/Sound seeing the PCI-424? YES
2. Is the PCI Audio Setup seeing any interfaces? NO
3. Have you tried using a different FW cable to just one interface? YES
4. Have you tried moving the PCI-424 card to another slot? NO then after we hung up YES
5. Is the Extension current? I checked (System/Library/Extensions) and YES

I now have it in Slot 4 and "About This Mac" reveals:

pci137a,5:

Type: Audio
Driver Installed: Yes
Bus: PCI
Slot: Slot-4@5,0,0
Vendor ID: 0x137a
Device ID: 0x0005
Revision ID: 0x00ff

"Try these and call us back." (how many busy signals can I stand...today will be a test)

So, I'm still at square one...Neither DP nor the PCI Audio Setup will "see" the interfaces even though the computer is seeing the card.

Shoosh, I tried all of your suggestions, and you're correct in your response to Frodo, there is no way to enable any ins or outs until the interfaces are recognized...via Audio Setup, or via DP.

(Another busy signal)

The quest continues...

Buzzy

[buzzsmith]

EDIT: also could check Hardware setup in DP and the MOTU PCI control panel
Cheers
Phil

Thanks, Phil.

Within DP, Setup>Configure Audio System>Configure Hardware Driver it does show the PCI 424 card and allows me to change the sample rate or the buffer and holds them, but that's it.
(Yet another busy signal from MOTU...I think I'm up to 12, now.)

Buzzy

[buzzsmith]

Current status:

MOTU tech said send the card back for replacement.

Another week down!

Buzzy

[philbrown]

Current status:

MOTU tech said send the card back for replacement.

Another week down!

Buzzy

I was kinda wondering if the card had gone south. Doesn't take much static electricity (if that's what it was). I just didn't want to go there hoping that wasn't it! Seems like these cards are extra touchy. A friend went through 2 of those and finally the third worked for him.

[Shooshie]

Buzzy, sorry my suggestions didn't work for you. I have the same problem, except my methods DO work, so I guess my PCIe-424 card is balanced somewhere between being dead and alive, kind of like Schrödinger's Cat. I had the same problem on my previous PCI-424 card, and I've sent at least one of them back for replacement. I don't remember whether that was the PCI or the PCIe card that got sent back, but they replaced it, then the new one did the same thing as the old one, except that the old one gradually got to the point where I couldn't revive it, just like yours. The new one isn't that far gone yet. It may take yet another for me before I get one that doesn't do that at all. I thought it was because of the legacy boxes that it does that.

Well, it's a pity that you have to wait. Could they send it Priority Mail? I just thought for sure that it could be revived. What a disappointment!

Shooshie

[buzzsmith]

Buzzy, sorry my suggestions didn't work for you. I have the same problem, except my methods DO work, so I guess my PCIe-424 card is balanced somewhere between being dead and alive, kind of like Schrödinger's Cat. I had the same problem on my previous PCI-424 card, and I've sent at least one of them back for replacement. I don't remember whether that was the PCI or the PCIe card that got sent back, but they replaced it, then the new one did the same thing as the old one, except that the old one gradually got to the point where I couldn't revive it, just like yours. The new one isn't that far gone yet. It may take yet another for me before I get one that doesn't do that at all. I thought it was because of the legacy boxes that it does that.

Well, it's a pity that you have to wait. Could they send it Priority Mail? I just thought for sure that it could be revived. What a disappointment!

Shooshie

But I appreciated the suggestions.
In the note that I enclosed in the FedEx Overnight return box, I mentioned that I'd be willing to pay for expedited shipping back to me.

My "fear" is that I'll experience the same issue with the new card...hope not.

I'm almost positive that static electricity was not a factor, since I did not even open the Mac nor remove the card until instructed to do so by a Motu Tech. The only physical contact I had with the card was plugging in the 3 interface FW cables.

Yeah, it's a bummer...

Buzzy

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I even tried Time Machine to see if I could go back a day or so, prior to the problem, and restore the PCI Audio Setup.
Nada.

[Frodo]

Shoosh, I tried all of your suggestions, and you're correct in your response to Frodo, there is no way to enable any ins or outs until the interfaces are recognized...via Audio Setup, or via DP.

Ah, I told you that it might be a silly question, but Phil Brown appears to have gotten the same thought that I did--- not to contradict Shooshie in any way whatsoever. Something on the computer actually saw the 424--- it wasn't 100% clear what was seeing it and what wasn't... but it's always worth a look. Sometimes with a new driver, DP settings can be reset inadvertently.

The one reason why I mentioned it is because I just made a house call to someone who had a similar problem. We tried everything and tore out hair out (what's left), but Hardware Setup had somehow changed to something other than what was desired, and these settings had to be manually reset to what the user wanted.

(I don't make house calls, but there was tenderloin, shrimp and bacon involved.)

I'm sincerely sorry that you're having to go through this.

My next steps (while waiting for official word from MOTU) would be to dump the following files:

1. User Library> Preferences> Digital Performer> MOTU Audio System Prefs
2. User Library> Preferences> Digital Performer> Preferences

At that point I would re-reinstall the 424 driver, after which point I would shut everything down and go make a turkey (or tofu) sandwich..... (Seriously-- UNIX can be stubborn with flushing old data. It's not always a bad thing, but in this case it could be.)

....only after *which* point I'd reboot everything and try again.

[buzzsmith]

(I don't make house calls, but there was tenderloin, shrimp and bacon involved.)

I'm sincerely sorry that you're having to go through this.

My next steps (while waiting for official word from MOTU) would be to dump the following files:

1. User Library> Preferences> Digital Performer> MOTU Audio System Prefs
2. User Library> Preferences> Digital Performer> Preferences

At that point I would re-reinstall the 424 driver, after which point I would shut everything down and go make a turkey (or tofu) sandwich..... (Seriously-- UNIX can be stubborn with flushing old data. It's not always a bad thing, but in this case it could be.)

....only after *which* point I'd reboot everything and try again.

Believe it or not, right before I dropped off the box containing the PCI card at the FedEx store to overnight to MOTU, I checked MotuNation one last time to see if anyone else had posted a possible software suggestion!

Too bad I didn't wait to until midnight to at least try what you recommended!

So, Frodo, when I get the replacement card back (hopefully very soon), should I do the 2 steps that you mentioned prior to installing the card?
And then re-run the install package?...(trash the .kext file in Extensions, first?) Shutdown for UNIX "flush"...about 30 minutes?

Or, could I just install the card and see what happens, and then, if there are still issues, run through your tips?

(Wish you lived in Houston...I think I could top your tenderloin, shrimp and bacon!)

Buzzy

[Frodo]

So, Frodo, when I get the replacement card back (hopefully very soon), should I do the 2 steps that you mentioned prior to installing the card?

And then re-run the install package?...(trash the .kext file in Extensions, first?) Shutdown for UNIX "flush"...about 30 minutes?

Or, could I just install the card and see what happens, and then, if there are still issues, run through your tips?

(Wish you lived in Houston...I think I could top your tenderloin, shrimp and bacon!)

Buzzy

LOL-- the way to a hobbit's heart...

Generally, I'm a clean slate sort of Mac user. I'd do the two steps and then reinstall a fresh copy of the driver only because it's difficult to tell if any important files have somehow been corrupted.

But you could do it incrementally "just to see what happens"-- and if "what happens" leaves much to be desired you could proceed with the prefs dump.