Propellerheads Record is a Game Changer

[dougieb]

I've just finished my first two hours with Propellerheads Record and all I have to say is capital OMFG!!!

Right now I'm so floored by this achievement - and I'm going to call it that. I just bought it on a whim because it was only like $149 or something because I have Reason. I expected nothing - a toy. I think these guys just turned everything over.

I was thinking... why would they do another DAW app? What could they possibly bring to the table? That's all we need is another DAW app convoluting things. Well I was wrong... they have upped the bar considerably.

The mixer is beyond beautiful. If there is a problem with it, I can't figure out what it is. I realize not everyone has the screen real estate I do, but I'm having moment after moment of where was this 20 years ago? There is no mixer in any DAW that can touch this - or the virtual racks for that matter. Unlike Reason, you can have racks sitting next to racks, sitting next to racks - with effects and goodies loaded into them. (Far as I know, no ability to host any plugs at all which is a HUGE downside, but probably contributes greatly to its stability).

A couple of the demos they provide are actually mixed and mastered within the app and are convincingly "radio ready" - something I've never encountered on any DAW's demos (with the so-so exception of Logic's 8's which I believe were actually some released tracks).

That said, I'm big into MIDI, and Propellerheads still doesn't seem to have that niche together, but what they DO seem to have is a rock-solid app that with (in one instance) 3 side by side racks of virtual goodies (that you can flip over and rewire incidentally in real time) that barely ticks the first peg on my processor meter.

I'm sure that with Apple's backing, Logic should survive nicely, but all others need to seriously get with the program. I'm not saying this is the demise of MOTU. I think the more immediate threat might be to Digidesign since this is going to appeal greatly I think to "old school" engineers. This is probably the demise of a few companies, but who remains to be seen. Propellerheads have raised the bar to where it is going to interfere with local flight paths for sure.

I realize I've only spent a couple hours with this thing, but this is the first "gear" in a long time I've tripped on like this.

This can either be a motivator and wake up call to MOTU and other companies like MOTU to finally give some priority to frequent patches, features, and fast and crash-free software, or it can be the multi-band EQ'ed, mastered and finely SSL compressed voice of the fat lady.

I would be interested in what anyone else thought of this. It just seems almost too easy. There has to be a catch here somewhere.

-d

[BradLyons]

I do think this is a very cool plugin and program---I've had a chance to play with it myself. There is one MAJOR issue though----NO SUPPORT FOR THIRD PARTY PLUGINS. For some, this won't be an issue---for others, it can be. But I think the idea of RECORD with REASON will make it more of a home-based system or for the composer, but will keep it from being a mainstream professional DAW environment. With that said, there clearly is a HUGE market for it.

[carrythebanner]

I realize not everyone has the screen real estate I do …

There's the rub — I gave the beta a spin on a 17" iMac and the UI felt very cluttered and difficult to navigate. From my (admittedly brief) experience with the app, I can't imagine wanting to use it on that machine, let alone a laptop.

[Shooshie]

Say, try it out for us, Dougie, in Spaces. That's the poor-man's multi-monitor setup that I use for DP. DP works fine in it, though it won't remember what windows were in which spaces next time you open it. No matter. I can set that up in 10 seconds. Saves me many minutes of time switching from window to window over the course of a day.

If you can set up Record in Spaces, so that each window were in its own space, that might be more attractive to me, at least just to try it out on a test run.

How much is it? $149? Geez.

Now, it will host VI's, but not plugins? That makes no sense. How is its MIDI? How is the editing in MIDI? Can you draw in velocity or Continuous Controller changes? I ask, because Logic has this bizarre horizontal edit bar for each velocity. You can't just draw in the phrase, but have to grab each "bar" and drag it. Oh, there's the HyperEditor, but then you can't see your notes unless you align that window with your MIDI window. It's just strange. So, does this have the ability to draw in edits of entire phrases in one stroke?

How about an equivalent to our Adjust Beats? Can you make the barlines match the music? Or is it quantize-only? Is there a Tap-Tempo?

These are features whose absence would be deal killers for me for sure; even if it was free.


Shooshie

[James Steele]

Intel only BTW.

I downloaded the open beta only to find that bit out after the download as I recall. Oh well...

[zed]

Pretty friggin' cool. Love the mixing console, and numerous other things. Might definitely be something to explore as an alternative way to work.

How is its MIDI? How is the editing in MIDI? Can you draw in velocity or Continuous Controller changes?

Looks pretty good on the surface. See "Working with MIDI clips" video on this page:

http://www.recordyou.com/download

[Mr. Quimper]

Does it have any audio-for-video features? If not, I don't see how it'd be that big of a threat, considering all the majors, even Live now can be used to score/post a film to one degree or another, which is still a huge chunk of the market.

[Shooshie]

After watching some video clips, I must conclude either of two things:
1) there must be two sets of features: simple and advanced, and the advanced features are mostly hidden from view in the videos,

OR

2) this is a very simple songwriter's DAW, and is simply not capable of many of the things that I depend on and use daily in DP.

It's advanced in the way it automates your setup, learns your studio gear, and connects it all together. It's got a nice feature set. A songwriter would feel at home here pretty quickly if he's working on standard pop stuff. Frank Zappa would toss it in the trash and go back to DP.

It is what it is, and it isn't what it isn't. What it's not is a competitor to DP and other platforms commonly used for scoring compositions, movies, etc. But it IS a serious challenge to Garageband, and it gives some advanced features to users who like DP, but who have no use for its complexities.

I see no provision for adjusting barlines to the beat of the music. (Adjust Beats in DP)
I see no Tap Tempo -- but it could be there. It's easy to tuck away.
I see no advanced velocity change functions. DP has several "pages" of these in its Velocity dialog.
Create Continuous Data
Change Continuous Data (the dialog)
Set Continuous Data density

Aaa... I can't list them. I don't even have Record to compare with; I'm going by the videos, which are not targeted toward advanced users, but still, I think these features would be revealed in passing. Suffice to say there are hundreds of features in DP that are not present here. They may seem insignificant to those who don't use them, but when you need them, and they're the only way to get what you need done, they're very important. Record is in its infancy. Let's give it a few years, then see what's happened to it.

Shooshie

[buddhabelly]

Now, it will host VI's, but not plugins? That makes no sense. How is its MIDI? How is the editing in MIDI? Can you draw in velocity or Continuous Controller changes? I ask, because Logic has this bizarre horizontal edit bar for each velocity. You can't just draw in the phrase, but have to grab each "bar" and drag it. Oh, there's the HyperEditor, but then you can't see your notes unless you align that window with your MIDI window. It's just strange. So, does this have the ability to draw in edits of entire phrases in one stroke?

How about an equivalent to our Adjust Beats? Can you make the barlines match the music? Or is it quantize-only? Is there a Tap-Tempo?

These are features whose absence would be deal killers for me for sure; even if it was free.


Shooshie

Hmm. I've seen you write this before about Logic. I draw in MIDI CCs in the piano roll editor in Logic all the time. When you create a node, a vertical line appears that shows where the node is going in relation to the note in the piano roll. Maybe I'm missing what you mean. I'll post a screenshot later.

One thing that logic doesn't have though is the drawing tools that DP has, the random ramps, parabolas etc.

[Kubi]

No third party plug-ins? Sounds like the software successor to the (early versions of the) Roland V-Studios... To me that's hardly a game changer, but what do I know. Could indeed be a cool notepad, but I think Garageband does that already for free with every Mac. But of course I never got the whole Reason thingie either, so I probably shouldn't even have an opinion.

Btw, Shooshie, I would almost dare bet a few nice microbrews that there's no tap tempo, adjust beats, or anything even remotely in that league in this app...

[dougieb]

I think comparing this to GarageBand isn't really a valid comparison. Garageband doesn't have the full insane mixer that record does (can't think of another DAW that does). Nor do I think this is as simple as a "songwriter tool".

Like I said, I work mainly with MIDI, and have a substantial investment in plug-ins, so again, the limitations as far as plug-ins would be a deal killer for me, however, this is the beginning, and at this price point, this is the game changer. Further, I can't imagine it would be too difficut for Propellerheads to do a virtual host.

Anyone who previousy worked with tape machines, this appears to be a direct and very familiar replacement requiring little or no adjustment.

BTW Shooshie, the f5, f6, f7 keys are hot keys for the three screens (vs. spaces).

If this is 1.0, the future is scary good.

[Shooshie]

If this is 1.0, the future is scary good.

I'd agree with you on that. Especially if it's relatively bug-free. All the other features can come later as the market demands. Still, until it catches up a bit I wouldn't find it very useful. I just depend too much on those features they haven't added yet.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

Now, it will host VI's, but not plugins? That makes no sense. How is its MIDI? How is the editing in MIDI? Can you draw in velocity or Continuous Controller changes? I ask, because Logic has this bizarre horizontal edit bar for each velocity. You can't just draw in the phrase, but have to grab each "bar" and drag it. Oh, there's the HyperEditor, but then you can't see your notes unless you align that window with your MIDI window. It's just strange. So, does this have the ability to draw in edits of entire phrases in one stroke?

How about an equivalent to our Adjust Beats? Can you make the barlines match the music? Or is it quantize-only? Is there a Tap-Tempo?

These are features whose absence would be deal killers for me for sure; even if it was free.


Shooshie

Hmm. I've seen you write this before about Logic. I draw in MIDI CCs in the piano roll editor in Logic all the time. When you create a node, a vertical line appears that shows where the node is going in relation to the note in the piano roll. Maybe I'm missing what you mean. I'll post a screenshot later.

One thing that logic doesn't have though is the drawing tools that DP has, the random ramps, parabolas etc.

Can you do it with velocities? I've been asking this for years, and have studied Logic for any clue of being able to do that, and so far the closest anyone has come to showing me the way is to link the HyperEditor up with the piano roll editor, and they form a vertical sync that pretty much does the trick, but damn! If not for a guy who goes by the name of "keybored," I STILL wouldn't know that trick. That's the most basic function of a MIDI editor. What were they thinking? "Nein, Nein, take it back and do it over. Er ist nicht complicated enough yet!"

Schuschie

[charlesparente]

Shooshie said..."Especially if it's relatively bug-free."

I don't own Record, but I've used Reason since v2 and it's the only program I own that has never crashed on me.
Not once!
Those gents really know how to code...but I bet it helps that they have a closed system which does not allow 3rd party VI's or effects.

[buddhabelly]

of course you can. That would be pretty dense if you couldn't. You can do it with any MIDI controller. But you can also simple use the velocity tool in the piano roll and click any note and drag up or down to change the velocity. A little yellow help tag will pop up next to the cursor with the amount you're changing as well as the absolute value, and other info. Then there's the transform window that you can do any number of transforms to data.

Now, answer me a question? Is there the equivalent of Quick Automation controller in DP? In logic I can quickly assign say the mod wheel on my keyboard to be the quick automation controller. Then, I can write automation for whatever parameter is active in the sequence. Such a thing in DP?

Can you do it with velocities? I've been asking this for years, and have studied Logic for any clue of being able to do that, and so far the closest anyone has come to showing me the way is to link the HyperEditor up with the piano roll editor, and they form a vertical sync that pretty much does the trick, but damn! If not for a guy who goes by the name of "keybored," I STILL wouldn't know that trick. That's the most basic function of a MIDI editor. What were they thinking? "Nein, Nein, take it back and do it over. Er ist nicht complicated enough yet!"

Schuschie