New to MOTU It's WORKING!

[RageoPari]

Hi all,
I just got a 2408mk3 and I have a few questions that your membership will probably be able to answer. Please pardon me as I've done a search but didn't find find this information so if it has been coverd, please forgive me.(Though a post by XYZ came very close and he has an Apogee Rosetta 800!)
I found out about this site from the Sonar Producer Forum. I did leave a Tech link on the MOTU site but, it's been almost 2 days and no one has read it yet. The general opinion over there is that the MOTU Support is a little weak, but they had high praise for you guys.
This is what I sent them, so if any of you would be so kind as to help me out, that would be great.

I am new to using Optical ADAT connections, in fact, I’m a little fuzzy on the whole clock thing. Up till now I’ve only had one sound interface connected. I am using Sonar 8 PE & Sound Forge 8 for sound apps. I record 24 bits @ 96KHz in Sonar and open files from 96 to 44.1 KHZ in Sound Forge. I have the 2408mk3 connected to an Apogee Rosetta 800 from the Optical out B of the 2408mk3 via ADAT optical cable to the ADAT 1-8 (1-4) in on the Rosetta.
I have three questions.
1.) Although I can send audio out to the Rosetta (Channels 1 & 2 connected to the powered monitoring system, I can select the first four channels in the audio app to record to, no sound reaches these channels for recording. (No movement in the meters in the audio app but if I physically switch the sound source to the first two channels in on the 2408mk3, I see the meters bounce and I can record to those channels. Do I need an optical cable from the Rosetta’s ADAT – S/MUX 1-4 back out into the Optical A in to record on these channels?
2.) From the MOTU PCI Audio Console with 96000 selected I can ‘see’ 4 channels on the Rosetta and I can also see them in the Audio Apps, channels 1, 2 & 1 Stereo, 3 & 4 and 3 Stereo. But just the four. If I used another Optical cable from the Rosetta ADAT out 5-8 to the Optical C in, would I be able to use channels 5 through 8?
3.) Would there be an advantage to connecting the word clocks (BNC) cable between the 2408mk3 & the Rosetta? At present, with the connection as explained above, if I select the sample rate manually on the Rosetta front panel the ADAT & S/MUX LEDs on the front panel light and it syncs with the audio app and all is good. I can see (and hear) Audio coming out the monitor and I can see it going through channels 1 & 2 LEDs. If I choose EXT (External) with the Sync button on the Rosetta front panel the 48 LED lights but the 96 LED never lights (back when I was using this directly connected (Firewire) When I play a 96 file, the front panel would switch to 96 and if I played a 44.1 the 44.1 LED would light. The sound exiting the Rosetta plays fine, BUT a stereo file will play back across channels 1 trough 4 with the left side of the stereo output playing on channels 1 & 2 and the left side of the Stereo image will exit on channels 3 & 4. Besides this playback issue Left & right (Or channels 1 & 2 on the Rosetta are supposed to be left & right, not 1 & 3 or 2 & 4) I guess I’m just used to seeing the sample rate of the current file playing reflected on the front panel. From within the MOTU PCI Audio Console, under the Word Out Rate (This probably has to do only with the BNC word clock connection, as selecting any of these options don’t seem to have any effect on any sync operations. Is this true? Currently I have ‘Match System Clock’ selected. I guess what I’m looking for here is what are the optimal settings for my setup scenario and is there a book or any articles you could suggest for me as this whole clock thing is new to me and I’d like to know more about it.
OK, look forward to hearing back from you on these.

Any insight on these would be great.
Thnaks in advance

[TheRealRoach]

First off, you may have more luck on an Apogee-specific forum as it appears that the Apogee is what is connected to your computer. Are you using the optional X-firewire card for Apogee to connect it to your computer?

USUALLY with this sort of configuration you would have your Motu set up as your main "sound card/interface/ad/da", and then you would use your "boutique" converter, the apogee, as a better front end. So basically you signal path would look like this:

Microphone -> Preamp -> Apogee analog input -> Apogee ADAT out -> Motu ADAT in -> computer. I assume that's what you're trying to do. Once you clarify that then we can work it out more.

Also, wordclocks are a pretty good idea as soon as you start to mix and match digital audio equipment.

[RageoPari]

First off, you may have more luck on an Apogee-specific forum as it appears that the Apogee is what is connected to your computer. Are you using the optional X-firewire card for Apogee to connect it to your computer?

USUALLY with this sort of configuration you would have your Motu set up as your main "sound card/interface/ad/da", and then you would use your "boutique" converter, the apogee, as a better front end. So basically you signal path would look like this:

Microphone -> Preamp -> Apogee analog input -> Apogee ADAT out -> Motu ADAT in -> computer. I assume that's what you're trying to do. Once you clarify that then we can work it out more.

Also, wordclocks are a pretty good idea as soon as you start to mix and match digital audio equipment.

Sorry you got the wrong impression. I DID have the Apogee connected via the X-card, but when I discovered that Apogee had dropped their support for PC’s, I found out about the 2408mk3, and that I didn’t have to lose the Rosetta 800, plus gain another 8 ins & outs for when you want to record more then 8 channels at once, like mikeing a live drums, so…
I do have the setup you described only I have (and this maybe wrong) the Out B of the 2408mk3 connected to the Rosetta, via the optical cable, to the in (the 1-8 ADAT-S/MUX) of the Apogee. I figured that that’s how the signal path would go, but I also realize that optical cables may (Probably?) don’t work like that. That may be the reason I can’t record from the Apogee, because I have the cable connected from the out of the mk3 to the in of the Rosetta.
I know the mk3 manual said the ADAT protocol doesn’t support 8 channels of audio @ 96 KHz, only 4. That’s why I was asking if I connected the out 5-8 on the Apogee to the Optical C on the mk3 would get me another 4 channels @ 96.
I’m trying to use the Apogee as the main interface but use both if I have need of more then 8 ins.
Thanks for your reply, TheRealRoach. I came here first, instead of an Apogee board, as you suggested, because I had ‘heard’ some nice things about you guys over here from the Cakewalk forums.

[TheRealRoach]

Ok, you'll have to set it up as I illustrated above. Your X-Fire card no longer serves a purpose if it is not directly connected to your computer via firewire card.

ADAT/lightpipe cables only have a certain data throughput. They can usually handle 8 channels of 44.1/48, or 4 channels at 88.2/96khz.

Your signal flow for 96k should follow:

Microphone -> Mic Pre -> Apogee Analog Input -> Apogee ADAT out 1-4 -> Motu Optical In "A" -> Audiowire -> Computer
Microphone -> Mic Pre -> Apogee Analog Input -> Apogee ADAT out 5-8 -> Motu Optical In "B" -> Audiowire -> Computer

Set your sample rate from your Motu Control Panel on your computer. Hopefully your Apogee syncs automatically. If not, manually switch it with the Sample Rate button.

If things are working, then you should see signal activity on the MOTU Digital I/O Bank A for channels 1-4 and B for channels 5-8.

Good Luck

[RageoPari]

Wow, that didn't work at all. No sound comes out of the Apogee. I can see the lights on the mk3 for ADAT bank A but only the odds are lit (1,3,5,7) and when I push play, the outs 1 & 3 light, but no activity on the Apogee LEDs. At this point I only have one optical cable so I can't use B yet.
I feel like a blind man trying to solve a Rubics cube.

[RageoPari]

But I do apreciate your efforts, thanks very much.

[TheRealRoach]

Wow, that didn't work at all. No sound comes out of the Apogee. I can see the lights on the mk3 for ADAT bank A but only the odds are lit (1,3,5,7) and when I push play, the outs 1 & 3 light, but no activity on the Apogee LEDs. At this point I only have one optical cable so I can't use B yet.
I feel like a blind man trying to solve a Rubics cube.

This might be asking the obviously, but are you running sound into the Apogee's analog inputs when you're doing test recordings?

1,3,5,7, likely light because of your high sample rate. 2,4,6,8 are disabled.

I would still double check your settings. This should be working. I would thoroughly read the manual for the two units if you are still having problems.

[RageoPari]

I didn’t do any test recordings, since switching the ins & outs with the optical cable, there’s no audio reaching the Apogee. I never disconnected any of the analog ins to the Rosetta, from the mike pres or the analog outs 1 & 2 to the monitors. I just sortta drop the 2408mk3 in between the Rosetta and my computer. None of the analog ins or outs are connected to the mk3. I only intend to use them if I have need to record more then 8 channels at the same time.
The Rosetta manual assumes you know all about word clocks & ADAT connections and, pretty much, just tells you where the connections are made, not how they work. I’m going to go get another optical cable today and, I think, a BNC cable too, so I can connect the word clocks of the two units. (I remember reading somewhere that this is more reliable then the ADAT connections)

[RageoPari]

It's WORKING. I got another optical cable today and connected it from the out of bank A to the in of the Rosetta, adjusted the front pannel to EXT S/MUX and all the audio is coming out of the Apogee and I can record on 1 - 4 in of the Apogee! I had asked a guy at GC last week if I needed two cables and he told me, "No" so I assumed that the Optical cables were bi-directional (Remember, I'm new to this) but their not or, at least, not in this appication. OK, I assumed he knew what he was talking about and you know what happens when you assume...
Anyway, there was only one optical cable left in the store so I'm ordering a couple more so I can catch 5-8 from the Apogee into bank B. HOORAY!
Thanks again for all your efforts, TheRealRoach. ' really appreciate it.

[RageoPari]

Just went out and got two more optical cables and connected them up to bamk B and I can get all 8 ins AND outs of the Apogee. Woohoo! Haven't got a BNC cable yet, but I've got a call into support to see if that would even be necessary.

[Pappy725]

Congratulations! Ain't it wonderful when it's all working?
Pappy

[RageoPari]

Sure is