using 896 analog outputs

[sstudebaker]

We are recording live with 10 mics into Sonar using an 896 and an 828mkii. I am trying to get three vocal mic signals from the analog outputs on the 896 to a mixer and then to a PA. I can't get a signal out of any of the analog outs on the 896. The manual makes no explanation for how to assign those outputs, nor can I fond anything online. The 896 does not use Cuemix and the Motu Audio Console doesn't seem to control them either. What am I missing?

[Pappy725]

I would think you would have to use Sonar to route the outputs of the three vocals to the 896 analog outs. Is there somewhere in Sonar to do this? I do this in DP all the time.
Pappy

[bigdaddy]

Hey there - I just got a used 896 and had the same problem. First things first though. You won't be able to get 3 mic ins out of the 896 1st gen. It's not possible. It allows you to monitor a stereo pair (1&2, 3&4, etc...) or a single mono in. To do this, you can choose what to monitor in the MOTU Audio Console. Then, flip that little switch on the front of the 896 (between the Monitor Level and Volume knob) down. Turn up the Monitor Level and you should get signal out of the Main Outs now.

That's how I got it working on my system. Hope this helps.

[Pappy725]

First things first though. You won't be able to get 3 mic ins out of the 896 1st gen. It's not possible. It allows you to monitor a stereo pair (1&2, 3&4, etc...) or a single mono in.

In that case, use the 828mkII to do this. You can route each mic out one of the 8 analog outs on the 828. Also if you use the two mic pres on the 828, the sends on those two channels will work for your purposes. The 828 also works with CueMix. I'm guessing the 896 might show up if you daisy chain it by firewire. Does it have optical out?
Another way to do things.....
Pappy

[sstudebaker]

Routing from Sonar channels to the outputs of the 896 works during playback, but not during recording, so it's no good for monitoring.

Using bigdaddy's instructions I got 2 mic inputs routed into the PA through the 896 main outs, which is good enough for monitoring purposes.

As far as trying to connect the two interfaces, I can't get the 828 and 896 to daisy chain through firewire under XP. At best the 896 doesn't show up in Cuemix. At worst I get a blue screen crash. I can connect both at the same time into separate ports on the computer and have all inputs available in Sonar, which is good enough.

When I connect the 896 ADAT out with an optical cable to ADAT in on the 828 I can see 8 channels of ADAT addded to Cuemix, but I don't see any signal during recording or playback. I'll have to study up on how to accomplish this.

[sstudebaker]

Problem solved. Mics one and two into 828mkii mic inputs, then out through the send jacks to mixer channel one and two. Mic three into 896 channel one and out through 896 left main out into mixer channel three. If I had a fourth vocalist they could com into 896 channel two and out through 896 right main out. All 3 vocalist are now in the PA, with all ten inputs going to their own separate tracks in Sonar. By assigning all Sonar track outputs to "828 phones" we can monitor the whole thing during recording or playing back through 828 phone jack. Thanks for the tips.

Still don't know how to get 896 channels into 828mkii and Cuemix through ADAT.

[Pappy725]

When I connect the 896 ADAT out with an optical cable to ADAT in on the 828 I can see 8 channels of ADAT addded to Cuemix, but I don't see any signal during recording or playback. I'll have to study up on how to accomplish this.

That's what I was talking about, now you need to go to Sonar and enable the ADAT channels in from the 828 so you can record from them. This way you're just using the 896 as a converter/preamp.
BUT, as long as it's working for you, I say, let it ride.
There's a million and one ways to route audio through these MOTU units. It's just wrapping your head around all the different ways.
Pappy

[bigdaddy]

To follow up, the 896 will NEVER been seen in CueMix. It doesn't support it. Only the newer 896 HD does. Bummer, eh?

[sstudebaker]

I am re-visiting this issue in a different setting. Previously we were trying to record live and get the vocal mics routed to both Sonar and the PA. AS seen above we found a way to do so.

Now we are trying to record track by track and we need to be able to monitor through headphones while playing. While we can get all 10 analog tracks into Sonar, we can only monitor 2 from the 828 and two from the 896. What are we supposed to do with the other 6 instruments, just guess how they sound in the mix? I don't understand why the 896 has 8 analog outputs if you have to choose only 2. For that matter, why not just have the main outs since the analog outs can't be monitored as the same time as the main outs. It appears to me that the analog outputs have no purpose.

To review, all inputs can be recorded. I can route all of them back to the 828 headphone phone jack, but only the 828 inputs can be heard. The 896 will only monitor 2 of its inputs at a time, which in many situations renders the other 6 useless. I can't monitor the 896 though the 828 ADAT, nor do they daisy chain with firewire. I understand the I/O handling of Sonar and have been able to monitor multiple tracks while recording with other interfaces, but if Sonar is supposed to handle the monitoring function, then how is this accomplished? I can't imagine anyone would design an interface where you can't hear what you're recording.

[bigdaddy]

I can't speak for Sonar, but I believe that in DP, when using the 896, you can monitor all 8 inputs
(with latency). I still use a hardware mixer in my setup, so I've set up the 896 as follows:

8 channel XLR snake for mics. Main out's of 896 to channels 9/10 on the hardware mixer.

Inputs 1 & 2 of snake to inputs 1 & 2 of the 896. Direct monitoring through MOTU Audio Console.
Great for recording overdubs with a clean signal path.

Inputs 3 - 8 of the snake run to my mixer (in's 1 - 6). I monitor these ins through the mixer,
blended with the 896 out's (inputs 1 & 2 as stated above) for real time, zero latency monitoring
of all 8 channels running to the 896.

So yes, it's a compromise. I'm using my mixers pre-amps instead of the 896 on channels 3 - 8. I'd
rather use just the 896 pre-amps, but that's life. My mixer has hardware synths, an amp simulator
and 2 other computers running to it, so I want the flexibility to be able to record a combination of
mics (the snake) and other things at any time. The only way to do this with the 896 was to
incorporate the mixer into the setup.

If I wanted to record say, 6 to 8 drum mics all through the 896 pre's, I can re-patch if needed, but
so far the above setup has proven to be very workable and flexible. These days, I'm using 3 or 4
channels to record drums so I have 4 or 5 channels to spare (guitar, bass, vocal, etc...)

That's my setup and I'm sticking to it... for now

[sstudebaker]

Yeah, I had planned to use my mixer for headphone monitoring of the scratch tracks while recording the drum track, which is when we'd be using the most inputs simultaneously. Still with the 828, 896 and 4 send channels on the mixer I can only monitor 8 channels, when I have 10 analog inputs. I would prefer to run everyone through the MOTU's, since I would assume that the converters on the 896 and 828 are better than the Mackie mixer. It doesn't really matter since we're only REALLY recording one track at a time once we get the scratch track down.

Maybe I'm dense, but I still don't understand why there are 8 analog outputs on the back of the 896. If they have have a signal I could run them somewhere to monitor them somehow. If they don't, then how would they be used?

Thanks

[bigdaddy]

Maybe I'm dense, but I still don't understand why there are 8 analog outputs on the back of the 896. If they have have a signal I could run them somewhere to monitor them somehow. If they don't, then how would they be used?

Thanks

You are certainly not dense. One use for the 8 outs would be during mixdown. Imagine having a rack of nice outboard gear to use for mixing. Compressors, limiters, EQ's, reverbs, etc... You could route individual tracks or even groups of tracks (via aux sends) to your outboard gear for processing. You could also use these outs when overdubbing to set up different headphone mixes. Mix one goes to out's 1&2 and mix two goes to outs 3&4.

I think that when MOTU designed the original 896, hardware mixers were still very much in vogue. With the newer MOTU interfaces and their CueMix functionality, you can take the hardware mixer out of the picture and do it all "in the box" if you like.

[sstudebaker]

So you can route up to 8 playback tracks out through the analog outs, but if you're recording you can only monitor two channels. If this is the case you could overdub and monitor up to 2 channels while listening to six playback tracks simultaneously? I guess that is usable functionality. If I have it straight now, I can figure out a way to record, and monitor enough tracks at once with the 828, 896, plus the mixer.

If I read the specs right, the 896HD or 896mk3 will support live monitoring of all tracks through cuemix, which would make life easier.