V-Drums into DP5

[tdblanchard]

I'm thinking about getting a V drum kit to use in my studio.
I'm not much of a drummer, but better with sticks than on my keyboard!
My question is:
How would you set this up with DP5?
I can't seem to find anything on the web about this set up...

[rentadrummer]

You didn't say whether you wanted to record audio or MIDI, but you can do both. All of the Roland drum brains have MIDI In/Out, as well as the capability to send Audio. Some of the brains offer more audio options than others, which makes it easier to split the audio to a greater number of tracks. You connect the drum brain to whatever interface you choose, and record your playing into DP. You can also use the vdrums to trigger a program like EZDrummer, Superior 2, BFD and Addictive Drums, to mention a few.

[tdblanchard]

You didn't say whether you wanted to record audio or MIDI, but you can do both. All of the Roland drum brains have MIDI In/Out, as well as the capability to send Audio. Some of the brains offer more audio options than others, which makes it easier to split the audio to a greater number of tracks. You connect the drum brain to whatever interface you choose, and record your playing into DP. You can also use the vdrums to trigger a program like EZDrummer, Superior 2, BFD and Addictive Drums, to mention a few.

Thanks Ron.
Actually, I'd probably be doing a bit of both. I tried out the TD9 kit and loved the default kits it has but I'm sure after a while of having it, I'd want to "pick at it" quite a bit.
Have you any experience using it to trigger kits/sounds with Reason?
I'm not at all familiar with the drum-specific software you mentioned, but maybe it would be worth a look at them...
What do they offer that Reason can't?

[rentadrummer]

I've never used Reason so I can't help you, but there have been several vdrum/Reason posts that might answer some questions.

If you want any information about EZDrummer and Superior 2 you can find it http://www.toontrack.com I don't think the samples on the site always portray an accurate picture of what you can do with any of the programs, but it's a good place to start.

[electropoet]

Vdrum and toontrack superior drums 2.0 is a fantastic match. Highly recommended.

[tdblanchard]

I started a different thread about this [thread=34238]here[/thread].
So I went out and bought BFD2 and WOW!
Those sounds are amazing.
I'm just having a hard time figuring out the latency I'm getting when trying to play them live with my VDrums.
Any ideas?
Everything's up-to-date.
I just ordered DP6. But DP5 should be fine with it.
Is my cpu just too slow?

[BradLyons]

You have an original 828, there is definitely higher latency with that box than current MOTU interfaces. You'll probably want to look into updating that. By the way I just tried to email you, but it bounced back....has your email changed?

[tdblanchard]

You have an original 828, there is definitely higher latency with that box than current MOTU interfaces. You'll probably want to look into updating that. By the way I just tried to email you, but it bounced back....has your email changed?

I thought the 828 had ZERO latency....
hmmm.
my email's the same. just checked it in CP

[BradLyons]

Your profile says "old school 828", so by that you mean the original 828 right?

[tdblanchard]

Your profile says "old school 828", so by that you mean the original 828 right?

Yup.
Back in 2001 when I bought it, the claim was ZERO latency...
http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM01 ... R/828.html

[BradLyons]

The original 828 and 896 did NOT have DSP monitoring built-in, so what they offered was a "zero-latency" driver that wasn't exactly zero-latency. Basically in the firewire control panel you could select a SINGLE input channel, either mono or stereo, and that would route through the computer and allocate system memory to monitor with in real-time, or at least more real-time than without it. When you're plugged into your 01V, that is where you monitor is on the console and then lightpipe to the interface. So in that case, you're fine. HOWEVER when you're working with software synthesizers, the computer is now having to process this information----with the original 828, the drivers are just not as good as the newer interfaces of today for obvious reasons that technology improves over the years. So the latency you're experiencing with BFD2 is predictable, and one that the dealer where you bought this from should have told you about in the first place before you purchased it.

Now, the latency isn't too bad for a keyboardist---but for triggering from electronic drums, it can be quite noticeable. With BFD2, you're working with multiple LARGE sets of samples that are being triggered and retriggered at an alarming rate. By today's standards, a dual processor G5 is still a pretty fast computer....but the interface is using technology that is several years old. Drivers are VERY important with direct monitoring and although in this case you're not direct monitoring through the I/O for audio input, you are doing it with softsamples. In fact, software synths are even MORE demanding than raw audio itself.

[tdblanchard]

The original 828 and 896 did NOT have DSP monitoring built-in, so what they offered was a "zero-latency" driver that wasn't exactly zero-latency. Basically in the firewire control panel you could select a SINGLE input channel, either mono or stereo, and that would route through the computer and allocate system memory to monitor with in real-time, or at least more real-time than without it. When you're plugged into your 01V, that is where you monitor is on the console and then lightpipe to the interface. So in that case, you're fine. HOWEVER when you're working with software synthesizers, the computer is now having to process this information----with the original 828, the drivers are just not as good as the newer interfaces of today for obvious reasons that technology improves over the years. So the latency you're experiencing with BFD2 is predictable, and one that the dealer where you bought this from should have told you about in the first place before you purchased it.

Now, the latency isn't too bad for a keyboardist---but for triggering from electronic drums, it can be quite noticeable. With BFD2, you're working with multiple LARGE sets of samples that are being triggered and retriggered at an alarming rate. By today's standards, a dual processor G5 is still a pretty fast computer....but the interface is using technology that is several years old. Drivers are VERY important with direct monitoring and although in this case you're not direct monitoring through the I/O for audio input, you are doing it with softsamples. In fact, software synths are even MORE demanding than raw audio itself.

I appreciate that explanation and hope you didn't take any offense to my stubbornness.
I just ordered a faster/bigger HD for my cpu, the maximum amount of RAM (bringing it to 4GB) and DP6 on Monday (should be here tomorrow).
At this point, what would be a <$500 solution if after completely reinstalling the OS and DP6 on a new HD with more RAM prove to be impotent to the latency problem?
I guess I don't mind tracking with the TD-9's sounds and then shifting the track post-performance, but I kinda want to play that Black Beauty snare drum!

[BradLyons]

A MOTU Ultralitemk3 ......the converters are the same as the 828mk3, just a smaller frame. BUT IMHO spend the extra $250 and get the 828mk3, it's rackmountable, has a full compliment of I/O INCLUDING------ ADAT I/O, which the Ultralite doesn't have. The RAM will be good, a faster hard-drive will be good, but if just changing those fixes it I'd be very surprised. I configure a lot of systems obviously, and almost every time it comes right down to the driver.

[tdblanchard]

A MOTU Ultralitemk3 ......the converters are the same as the 828mk3, just a smaller frame. BUT IMHO spend the extra $250 and get the 828mk3, it's rackmountable, has a full compliment of I/O INCLUDING------ ADAT I/O, which the Ultralite doesn't have. The RAM will be good, a faster hard-drive will be good, but if just changing those fixes it I'd be very surprised. I configure a lot of systems obviously, and almost every time it comes right down to the driver.

The thing is for my set up, I need the ADAT lightpipe 8ins + 8outs and really don't need any effects at all (reverb, eq, compression, etc.). All I need is either a firewire or a USB2.0 interface that pushes in and out 8 channels through ADAT lightpipe. With that in mind, is there a non-MOTU solution that would be cheaper?

[BradLyons]

I'd say, add the upgrades you've bought as those are going to be useful no matter what interface you have. If that doesn't work, then let's look at something new. If that does work, then buy yourself a nice dinner out somewhere