recording drums using 3 mics

[paleamberglow]

i am going to attempt recording drums this week with a 3 mic setup - 2 Rode NT5 condensers set up as room mic's, and one audix d6 on the kick. I am trying to capture more of the sound of the room... Has anyone here tried a setup like this with good results? How far back did you place the room mics, and how high? Did you use the spaced pair or X/Y pattern? Any input would be appreciated before I go wrestle with a drum kit.

[Phil O]

Yes, I have used this setup. So much depends on the room and the drummer. The answer to all your questions is experiment. I like to walk around with one ear covered and get a feel for how things sound around the room. Then place mics where the sweet spots seem to be. It's not always what's best, but it's a good starting place. Move your mics, listen, move, listen, and so on. Then experiment with height, etc. Don't rush through this process. Good mic placement will always make for a better recording. For a project I did a couple of years ago, the band wanted that retro big-room sound with "tons of reverb." I used two overheads (spaced pair slightly behind the drummer), a kick mic, and two room mics (cardioid) pointed at the far corners of the room. The three main mics sounded pretty clean and full, but blending in a little of those far corners gave me the effect they were looking for.

Phil

[therealbigd]

i agree. if you want room sound, use an extra pair of overheads - 1 set on the kit, 1 set on the reverb.

if it really must be a 3-mic job, try pointing the mics away from the kit, into the corners of the room.

[resolectric]

Mic #1: a large condenser with good Low Frequency response, in front of the Kick Drum, at the eight of the top part of the kick, about 3 feet away.
Mic #2: about shoulder height on the right side of the drummer, pointing towards the Snare, about 1ft from the Floor Tom.
Measure the distance from this mic to the center of the Snare.
Mic #3: above the Snare, pointing down towards it at the same distance from the Snare as Mic #2.

Mics #2 and #3 should be similar, if possible.
Large Condensers are usually better for "ambience" drum sound.
All mics cardioid, though i usually get good results with a Figure-Eight on the Kick.

It all depends on your room, of course.
Do not equalize
To maintain the ratio between room and drum sound, do not compress.

[therealbigd]

for a mega room sound, try recording the skins and the cymbals seperately. it gives you much more mixing options afterwards.

[resolectric]

for a mega room sound, try recording the skins and the cymbals seperately. it gives you much more mixing options afterwards.

With three microphones?!?!

[therealbigd]

yeah

i believe multi-tracking is the word.

3 mics to record kick, snare, toms.

then 2 condensers to record the cymbals.

simple eh.

[resolectric]

yeah

i believe multi-tracking is the word.

3 mics to record kick, snare, toms.

then 2 condensers to record the cymbals.

simple eh.

Huh... that's five and goes a bit against the purpose of recording drums with 3 mics don't you think?
Of course one can always record with just one Mic and do two overdubs afterwards.

There's also the possibility of recording with three mics on the Kick, then a new pass with three mics on the floor tom, and a new take with three mics on the snare...
got it?

[therealbigd]

indeed you could.

the question was 3 mics, not 3 tracks.

this could be something so simple as the question-asker only has 3 mics.... in which case tracking would be ideal.

[paleamberglow]

Thanks for the tips... do you "time-align" your room mic tracks with your close mic tracks?

[paleamberglow]

I used some of the techniques you guys suggested, and here's what I came up with:

http://www.paleamberglow.com/mp3s/drums.wav

I used the Rode NT5 condensers as "room" mics.. I put them in an X/Y pattern in front of and facing away from the drumkit, the height of the mics was a little bit lower than the cymbals and the distance from the kit was about 2 feet. I also put close mics on all the drums - SM57 on the snare, MD-421's on the toms, audix d6 on the kick.

I think this sounds OK, but the room is untreated and sounds a little "cheap" to my ears, if anyone could share their opinion on this sound I would appreciate it.

warning - this is just a rough mix and the kick drum and toms are pretty loud and bass heavy..

[therealbigd]

a cheap way to "treat a room for drums" is to buy a shed instead. a nice big shed that is. room size shed. arguably one of the best drum rooms you can get!

[glamacchia]

I agree the '. . . room is untreated and sounds a little "cheap" to my ears'
Cymbals sound out of place to the room sound of rest of the kit. The cymbal MICs have the TOM, KICK & SNARE room sound, the rest is close mic. Cymbals aren't jumping out, a little too smooth in the mix for the unmixed rough takes for my ears. Depending on the song I might want a harsher hat. Toms have that fat 421 sound. For the raw drum tracks it sounds great though!

Since they are cardioid and you set them XY, aim the NT5's at the kit and move farther back if you want more room, and maybe to the right to get more hat.

What kit are you playing on?

A trick I use when going for the opposite end of the spectrum and over MICing everything is overhead on the cymbals AND close mic each cymbal underneath but invert their phase.

[bongo_x]

I think that sounds pretty good. With some good mixing it sounds like you could make something really good out of that. I've know major label records that had worse drum sounds.

The cymbals and room sound little scooped, are you eq'ing a lot? Maybe that's the mics facing away. If you're facing away then you're mostly hearing room, and if you don't like the room... Try facing the kit with figure 8's or omni on the rooms/oh's if you want more room. Having your only ambient mics facing away is probably not going to give a full, present sound. Or try putting one mic out in the room facing away and compress the hell out of it. Then turn it way down. You can use just a little bit of that in the mix with rooms/oh's that are more direct and still have ambience. Or try to get less ambience and use a really good reverb.

Remember, if the drums don't sound good they won't record good. Same with the room. You have to work with what you have. If your room sound sucks, use more close mics. If your drum sounds suck, try getting a funky room sound to hide it. If they both suck get some good samples and try to get some good ambience recorded. Find the best part of the sound and emphasize it.

Make sure your phase is correct. There is nothing more important when recording drums in my opinion, and nothing more neglected. Some people can get a better sound with a bunch of 57's and a Mackie in rehearsal room than other people can in a world class studio. Much of that has to do with paying attention to phase. Physically measure your rooms to make sure they are the same distance. Flip the phase switches and listen.

I don't know what your situation is, but I think people make mistakes with their goals with these things. Often they are trying to compete with amazing recordings done in world class studios with great engineers. You can't. You couldn't if you were in that studio, and you're not. So try to do something else, something interesting, something different. Instead of trying to sound like something you can't match and failing, try to do something else entirely. Don't try and make it too pretty. You can't get a pretty sound in a crappy room. Most people err too much on the side of wimpy, trying to make everything too "nice".

That's all the drum advice I have for now, and more than anyone wanted. I need to rest now.

bb

[paleamberglow]

thanks for all the advice. I definitely hear you about people trying to match world class recordings and not getting there in their home studio. I have definitely fallen into that trap before. I really just want a decent drum sound, not necessarily a Butch Vig drum mix. I play ambient / instrumental music and what I need is a drum sound with a lot of air and space... a pop drum mix isn't gonna work for me.

Maybe since my room isn't the best, I could try to treat it (I am on a tight budget though..) or I can take the route of adding reverb to a really "close" sounding drum mix. Any suggestions for a good reverb plug-in for drums? I have the TC electronic powercore compact bundle, and have gotten some "OK" room reverb sounds with Classicverb, but it sounds cheap most of the time. How is that convolution reverb in the new DP ?

I also think that upgrading my mic preamps might help me out a bit, I realize I have to get it sounding good in the room first though. Right now I am using the 2 preamps on my 828mkII (overheads) and a mackie cfx 16 mixer for the rest of the channels. Any suggestions for a mic preamp that is good on drums? I was thinking either the SSL Alpha VHD or Presonus ADL 600..

oh yeah.. the drum kit I am using is a yamaha absolute maple (5 piece) with zildjian cymbals. It is a great kit, but my snare drum tuning skills aren't the best...