seeking opinions on Roland VG-99 guitar synth, GK-3 pickup

[ramadev]

I'm looking at the Roland VG-99 guitar synth module and the GK-3 divided pickup, and would like opinions on them.

In particular I'd like to know how realistic the acoustic guitar sounds are and how quiet (or noisy) the VG-99 is, and how accurately the GK-3 divided pickup translates to MIDI (via the VG-99).

I've heard the online demos but QuickTime & mp3s don't really tell me much about the quality.

My interest is driven by the ability to quickly change to non-standard pitch references (i.e. not A=440) and altered tunings (such as drop D, DGDGAD, slack key, etc.). I hope to use these both live and in the studio.

Thanks in advance for any comments!

http://www.roland.com/PRODUCTS/EN/VG-99/index.html

http://www.roland.com/PRODUCTS/EN/GK-3/index.html

[BradLyons]

It's a good product, both in the guitar modeling as well as the effects processor. It's basically (2) of the GT10 processors, which one alone is quite nice. Roland has been doing this sort of thing for many years, but the VG99 is the latest flavor and they've hit the nail quite well on the head. BUT... you may or may not feel the same. As a guitar to MIDI converter, the tracking is good...maybe not as fast as the Axon, but few use this for the MIDI output anyway but rather, just the modeling.

[monkey man]

You didn't specifically state that you require synth sounds, ramadev, and if this is in fact the case, you might want to check out the Line6 acoustic guitars.

They do the tuning thing, and you can get a nylon version now too.

[BradLyons]

You didn't specifically state that you require synth sounds, ramadev, and if this is in fact the case, you might want to check out the Line6 acoustic guitars.

They do the tuning thing, and you can get a nylon version now too.

But the catch there is THEIR guitar's..... where this allows him to use his own instrument, an electric and then do various tuning.

[monkey man]

I know, Brad. Good call.

I just thought I'd throw that in there as the quality of acoustic sims from the L6 guitars is quite adequate, IMHO, whereas I've not been a fan of the Roland guitar "sound".
Too fat, IMHO, much like their ROMPlers. All subjective though.

[ramadev]

Thanks for the replies Brad & MM. I have a Variax Acoustic 700 and a Variax Bass 705 and they're both great! The Acoustic 700 meets my needs for altered tunings, but not different tuning standards.

I have a client who's very interested in recording several projects in tuning standards ranging from roughly A=421 to A=426 rather than A=440, and wants to be able to change the tuning after recording. Keyboards are no problem 'cause we record everything to MIDI tracks as well as audio. Same for most winds; we got a WX-5 and VL-70m from Sweetwater for that. But guitar has been an issue, since (1) the Variax will only retune in 1/2 steps, and (2) it can't be changed once the recording has been done.

So the MIDI capabilities of the VG-99 are intriguing because it would allow us to capture and subsequently retune and re-record the guitar tracks. And thus the quality of the VG-99 sounds for recreating the guitar performances are important.

The Axon also looks very interesting; I'll have to look into that as well. But if the GK-3 tracks MIDI consistently albeit a tad slower, then perhaps I could just nudge those tracks in time to get them in sync?

And no, we don't really need synth sounds from the guitars (but that would be a fun bonus to be sure).

Thanks again you guys, this is helpful input.

[monkey man]

No worries, ramadev.

You know, I reckon minor tuning such as that you speak of wouldn't render a superior sound (the VariAxe700) worse than an untuned, slightly inferior sound (the Roland).
IOW, I don't think that even DP's algorithms could hack the 'Axe up to sound worse than the VG, at least not at such minor, poofteenth-of-a-semitone settings.

Just MHO, but you may already have all you need. (Zen, but possibly true).

[ramadev]

No worries, ramadev.

You know, I reckon minor tuning such as that you speak of wouldn't render a superior sound (the VariAxe700) worse than an untuned, slightly inferior sound (the Roland).
IOW, I don't think that even DP's algorithms could hack the 'Axe up to sound worse than the VG, at least not at such minor, poofteenth-of-a-semitone settings.

Just MHO, but you may already have all you need. (Zen, but possibly true).

Hmmm, I'll have to try that. But whenever I've tried retuning chordal instruments with spectral effects I always get these weird artifacts (which makes perfect sense). It may be slight enough of a tuning difference to get away with it however. The tunings range from -54 cents to -74 cents BTW. The thing about the VG is that it would regenerate the tones rather than retune existing tones.

[monkey man]

Yeah, I've understood exactly what you meant, ramadev.

Sounds like you might as well give it a go (it's all less than a semitone anyway).
My guess is that slight sharpening will sound better than flattening - tighter, better defined, if you will, but that there shouldn't be too much in it.
FWIW, you might even want to try conventional (non-spectral) shifting for this sort of minor tweak; the results can be surprising.

Another idea might be to record a semitone down and pitch-correct up if you find that sharpening works better than flattening.

Either way, I do feel you have the tools to get this done satisfactorily.

A last resort might even be to purchase Melodyne, but I wouldn't do this unless DP's engine proved inadequate for the task.
Even this option would prove cheaper than buying Roland hardware, you'd think.
Good luck man.

[ramadev]

Wow, Melodyne looks like it can solve this issue. I'd known about Melodyne, but haven't looked closely at it until just now. Necessity is the Mother of Invention and all that.

I'm downloading the demo now. The manual says that I can detune a track by entering an amount in cents, so that should do it (if DP can't, that is).

Clever monkey! *

Thanks; you may have saved my client some big bucks and made me look real good too!

* "clever monkey" is a compliment around here. The client I'm referring to here thought it was a put-down at first, but we straightened that out right away.

[mhschmieder]

As this is not widely known, I thought I'd mention that Axon just recently upgraded (or announced an impending upgrade to) their hex pickup, so that, like the recently revised GK3 from Roland, it can handle curved bodies such as a Les Paul, or even a violin or viola. Previous hex pickups from both manufacturers only handled Strat and Tele bodies.

Note that Axon has better tracking altogether, with just one or two playing styles that measure out as slightly more accurate with Roland pickups -- though the converter also matters. Both companies are getting better but still have a ways to go before guitar MIDI is a smooth operation as a player.

It does matter what your end goal is. Much of the modeling is based on a standard pickup and doesn't require separating the strings, but even much of that benefits from being able to treat each string separately. You will have to practice in any event, as your standard playing techniques are going to cause one problem or another with false triggers, ringing notes, or whatever. So do not go into this venturer unawares of the effort that it may entail to get good results!

That said, the quality of modeling today has gotten quite good. Someone told me the earlier Roland VG-series is better than the current one, if you're also interested in modeling acoustic orchestral strings, but I have not been able to confirm that. By "better", I don't mean in a subjective way, but simply in a raw "it has this feature" deterministic way. That is, there was some specific phrase modeling in one of the VG's that my source tells me was removed from the current model (unconfirmed).

[ramadev]

Good info mhschmieder. And the curved pickups will work with my PRS so this is good news indeed. Thank you!

[monkey man]

Good info mhschmieder. And the curved pickups will work with my PRS so this is good news indeed. Thank you!

Gonna go for the best of both worlds, ramadev?

Wow, Melodyne looks like it can solve this issue. I'd known about Melodyne, but haven't looked closely at it until just now.

It could prove handy for many other tasks too.

Necessity is the Mother of Invention and all that.

Aha! So that's why I've lacked creativity all my life - my mum's name is Pamela.

I'm downloading the demo now. The manual says that I can detune a track by entering an amount in cents, so that should do it (if DP can't, that is).

I think the transpose window might've allowed this as long as the "audio" option is selected.
Then again, I could just be hallucithinking.

Clever monkey!
* "clever monkey" is a compliment around here. The client I'm referring to here thought it was a put-down at first, but we straightened that out right away.

Hey, who're you callin' a put-down? Monkey's confused...

Thanks; you may have saved my client some big bucks and made me look real good too!

Yay! No worries man; that's what I live for.

[ramadev]

Gonna go for the best of both worlds, ramadev?

Actually, a fairly likely yes! The client is possibly going to spring for all the above. Oh yeah!

[monkey man]

Oh man, I need one of these new-fangled clients.

Great news, ramadev, great news.