HELP! MOTU 828mk3 + subgroups in CUEmix FX and Cubase SX

Raphie · Post by **Raphie** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:54 am

Ok, maybe i totally lost the plot of digital audio, but this is what i want to do and i can't get it to work.

I used to work with a Mackie LM32 8 Bus console, where i assigned channels to subgroups, put different effects on each group (i.e. 1 group for leads, 1 for drums, 1 for etc..) then i assigned all groups to the main mix and i recorded the main mix as my final production.

Now i want to do that with the 828mk3 either on Cuemix FX or on Cubase SX3 level. But i can't seem to get it work.

Example:
i use Battery as VSTi and via dissolve track ive got 7 percussion tracks with different pitches. These i all want to go to 1 subgroup, except the bassdrum which needs to go to the 2nd subgroup
Then i use the Pro53 for a bassline, which needs to go to a 3rd subgroup and i want to use a 4th subgroup for my remaining channels.

Now i would like all these subgroups to be present in Cuemix FX in the mixes window and all roll up into the main mix.
I can get them to appear like that, but then there all mapped to their analog outs. I can't seem to find a way to assign them back to the main mix.

Am i doing something wrong? or can't i use the 828 as an 8-bus mixer and to i need an additional real analogue firewire mixer like a Mackie Onyx to roll up the channels in a main mix and send them back as a stereo track into cubase ready for recording.

As you understand i would like to leverage the mixes TAB on Cuemix FX to apply the 828 reverb and compression/EQ to these submixes induvidually, outside cubase.
However i don't seem to be able assing their output to the main mix.
Please help.

pcournoyer · Post by **pcournoyer** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:54 pm

The lack of flexible routing for computer output channels has been discussed many times in this forum and leaves a lot to be desired. As you found out, streams from the computer go directly to the 828mk3 output according to the bus setup you do in Cubase. You cannot send them to the 828mk3 mixes.

One way around this is to send the computer streams out to an ADAT port with a loopback connections. Then your computer channels will show up as ADAT input on the 828mk3 where you can freely mix them.

If you want to record the resulting mix, I am afraid you have to go back the loopback way again to record some input ADAT channels...

Raphie · Post by **Raphie** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:42 am

That's really dissapointing. So i need an additional digital mixer (but Cubase only supports 1 ASIO device) or i need to add an analoque mixer and do an additonal D/A <> A/D conversion. Not being able to downmix sucks bigtime....

pcournoyer · Post by **pcournoyer** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:38 pm

Although the loopback trick is not the most elegant approach, you CAN process your sub-mixes individually and then mix them together with the 828mk3. I do not see why you need an external mixer. From you setup description, it seems that you are not using any of the ADAT ports on the 828mk3 so you have 16 loopback channels at 48 KHz (8 pairs) which is sufficient for your 4 sub-mixes (I assume here these are stereo) in addition to the final mix (which I also assume is stereo).

Also, since the loopback is done on the ADAT ports, there is no additionnal D/A - A/D conversion involved.

PostPCMan · Post by **PostPCMan** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:03 am

It's very annoying that we need to do the physical loopback, but really it works quite well if you don't need one or both of the adat I/Os for anything else. You just send your various submixes to the digital outs, and then you can mix them (with eq, effects, etc.) on the digital ins.

The inflexibility of the computer return routing is one of the three things that bug me about the 828.3, which overall I really like. The others are that CueMix FXdoesn't work with my AlphaTrack, and that motu, for some inane and mysterious reason, refuses to make electronic manuals available.

Raphie · Post by **Raphie** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:54 am

Ok, so i've just stuck 2 toslinks in the optical connectors in the back
i've added the digtials ins /outs to the Cubase connections
i've changed the ports from toslink to ADAT in the MOTU audio console
so if i now map my VSTi's to the ADAT outs i should be abe to see them in the mixer panel?

Raphie · Post by **Raphie** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:22 am

Ok, everything now works
got 16 mono inputs and 8 stereo output pairs
i use the spdif for external FX via an FX track on ADAT A1-2 and it all works nicely.

However after 'ive seen a demo yesterday of SSL Duende and the new TC Native Powercore V8, i think i am going to upgrade.
the FX in the 828MK3 are ok, but not good in the same league as TC and SSL. Let's see what the end of this month brings, on the wishlist are:

Cubase 4
Mackie Control
TC Electronics Powerecore V8
SSL Duende

the 828MK3 will remain for patching, routing and monitoring, but i don't thin ki will make much use of it's onboard effects going forward.

Raphie · Post by **Raphie** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:54 pm

Ok, next challenge, when i leave the main mix as default output in Cubase there is noticeable lag between sound traveling through the adat ports for 828 processing and the main mix in Cubase.

I can disable the main mix and only monitor the rolled up main mix on the 828, but that defeats the purpose of the main mix in Cubase, how did you guys compensate for the latency difference between the Cubase main mix (which is directly mapped to the main outs) and the rolled up signal from the adat input ports ? (which reach the 828 via the input mixes subgroups)....

saturnius · Post by **saturnius** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:52 am

Raphie, appreciate the informative posts, and glad to hear of your routing success. . .

Just curious, why are you thinking of upgrading from SX to Cubase 4?

Raphie · Post by **Raphie** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:41 am

saturnius wrote:Raphie, appreciate the informative posts, and glad to hear of your routing success. . .

Just curious, why are you thinking of upgrading from SX to Cubase 4?

Better soundquality, better plugins, better VSTi's for me well worth the upgrade. Timing is so much smoother and mixes just have more punch.