A/B test Black Lion modded 24io with unmodded simulaneously

[zandurian]

I was planning on cutting tracks tomorrow with both at once using 1 PCI 424 card and mirroring the takes on both units, but since the black lion (I've only hooked up yesterday) requires the clock set at external and I think that setting is global per pci card (?) I'm not sure it's going to work. And if I slave the unmodded unit to the black lion clock it will defeat my purpose.

This is a first experiment of it's kind for me so am hoping for some insight as I'm getting ready to plug everything up here.

Thanks in advance...
- Byron

[kwiz]

I was planning on cutting tracks tomorrow with both at once using 1 PCI 324 card and mirroring the takes on both units, but since the black lion (I've only hooked up yesterday) requires the clock set at external and I think that setting is global per pci card (?) I'm not sure it's going to work. And if I slave the unmodded unit to the black lion clock it will defeat my purpose.

This is a first experiment of it's kind for me so am hoping for some insight as I'm getting ready to plug everything up here.

Thanks in advance...
- Byron

The Black Lion mod replaces the analog section if I'm not mistaken so even though you slave the unit, there should be a sonic difference between the two.

[zandurian]

The Black Lion mod replaces the analog section if I'm not mistaken so even though you slave the unit, there should be a sonic difference between the two.

I ended up recording separate takes of similar material (a kid from down the street banging in my drum set) with both, but even listening back through the modded unit in both instances, yes - a clearly audible difference.

I was concerned because of some tech types on other sites talking about some of the replacement parts being not as good as the original ect. and because of that influence I came into this as a skeptic. I bought the modded one on ebay (for LESS than the unmodded one I bought on ebay (!) and all I can say is that the BL version sounds a lot like my apogees - tighter lows and clearer shimmering highs. It's kind of like what I used to try and compensate for with EQ - but to get it naturally... WOW - nice.

I ditched the apogee stuff because I went too far into debt for it all. When business picks up I'm sure I'll be reaching higher again but I am definitely pleased with what I'm hearing.

Sorry James if this should be under the hardware section. I was looking for a quick answer and this section gets the views...

- Byron

[Timeline]

what do you hear?

[zandurian]

what do you hear?

More depth, a little brighter and less harsh overall. I wouldn't call it night and day - more like subtle but clearly audible. Again, I tested it on a kid from down the street (who is just learning to play) playing his heart out on my studio set. I have a cheap crash cymbal right now (all my studio cymbals were stolen (!) and the highs/mids from the junk cymbal are not as harsh on the modded.

I read the some rave reviews about BL, but sometimes I think the anticipation and money spent may skew test 'results'. I didn't know what to expect but gave it a try and if it proves stable I'll sell the stock one.

- Byron

[Timeline]

very cool... thanks

[BobK]

Another skeptic chimes in: Did you do double-blind listening tests? If you knew what you were listening to, then there's no objectivity.

[willheim]

hey

i just got my interfaces back from bl about two weeks ago - two 2408 mk iii's and a 1296.

i modded them because i didn't want to spend for apogee or other botique

i really didn't expect difference, but that's me. the money isn't that much of an issue.

i have heard things in my samples i never heard before.

i was just getting back to work as i am busy and i just hooked the stuff up and sat down to write, not even thinking about the things.

then i played my flute sample and had to stop - i heard things in the sample i had never heard before - nuances of the playing and all the "air" around the samples.

i was astonished. it was quite unexpected.

i have four pc's with the ewqlso on them, tying into my system thru adat lightpipe.

anyway, just my experience.

[zandurian]

Another skeptic chimes in: Did you do double-blind listening tests? If you knew what you were listening to, then there's no objectivity.

I acknowledge that this wasn't a scientific test. In fact, I am playing back both takes with the BL mod. I wish I had the time to set up 2 different computers and record the identical takes with separate clocks etc and then post final mixes to let people judge totally blind. That would be interesting.
- Byron

[Don T]

Hello,
Would you check the noise floor on the modded unit and post the results? I've been considering the BL mod myself.

[willheim]

i cranked up my K&H 0300's to check the noise floor. all i could hear was the hash from the board, as usual. i a pretty anal about gain structure and noise floor. all my cable is balanced canari/mogami. i have separate power and circuits for my room. all the grounds run in separate flex in home run circuits to the ground for the house. hospital orange plugs.

the units are quiet. less noisy if anything.

[Don T]

Hello,
Could you do a simple test please? Unplug source from the input of the 24 I/O and record silence. Then play it back with either a couple of trim plugs with maxed out gain OR open the meter bridge and adjust the resolution of the meter to show the noise. Post the db of gain and / or noise reading.

Thanks.

[zandurian]

Hello,
Could you do a simple test please? Unplug source from the input of the 24 I/O and record silence. Then play it back with either a couple of trim plugs with maxed out gain OR open the meter bridge and adjust the resolution of the meter to show the noise. Post the db of gain and / or noise reading.

Thanks.

Yes, I'm familiar with the precedure and will do it next chance I get!
- byron

[EMRR]

That noise test is incorrect, at least insofar as you are testing an open input rather than a loaded or shorted input. Doing so gives a noise figure with no bearing on functional usage. You never record any open inputs, right? They are always loaded with a source impedance. Most SS devices have 150-600 ohm source impedances, so any similar resistor load on the input would be a correct test of INTERNAL noise SEPARATED from false input noise. And a shorted input would still be a better test than an open input.

[Don T]

Hello,
That is true but I have found that grounding the input makes no difference in the noise floor of the MOTU A/D units I have because they have noise added to mask the bus & PS noises inherent in the box.

16 bit showed quatization error, 24 bit showed white (or near white) noise.
I tested at 24bit (sample rate makes no difference)
My gear is as follows:
24 I/O = -86db
24i = -89db
2408 mk1 = -86db @ 20 bit

So my request for the test is partly based on whether the Black Lion mod improves resolutuion and do they adjust or modify the noise being added.

For reference:
our Digidesign 96 I/O's come in at -93db@ 24 bit.

I find this curious. Our 30 year old analog console (Sound Workshop) reads -100db going through the mic pre and the fader buffer amp.

My BiAmp Legend tested at -104db coming out the direct out (mic pre > fader > Audio Precision test station)

Since the A/D units only have "line in" with a single stage of op-amp gain, you would think that their specs would be better.