DP5+MS2 or Logic Studio?

[MrVideo]

Well, Apple has gone and lowered the price of the complete Logic Studio to $499 and since the combined upgrade to DP 5 and M5 2 is almost $400, it seems to me that an additional $100 to get ALL the instruments provided in Logic might be a better deal.

Comments?

[daveyboy]

This is assuming you like to work in the Logic environment of course. I have logic 7 and I don't think the sample library is all that great but it does have a bunch of great vi's and synthy stuff happening. If you're curious/interested in learning logic then go for it! There's no doubt it's a tremendous value as an all in one solution. If you just want more sounds then i'd say buy mach 5, or whatever, and stay in DP and use the extra time it would take to learn Logic and write a hit song!!

[sdfalk]

It's been commented on to death..do a search

[richard]

IMO, DP used to have the best features hands down for scoring for film. LS8 now is close, but I still like some of the tempo mapping features of DP more. One film-scoring feature that used to put DP ahead for me was being able to record off busses so I could create stems for recording sessions and dub mixes. FINALLY, now LS8 has this feature.

The effects, synths and sample library that come with Logic are _considerably_ better than DP. The freeze functionality in Logic kicks DPs butt and the ability to run more synths and plug-ins at one time also favors Logic by quite a bit in my 2x2 G5 system. If these CPU friendly features aren't enough, you can also run Logic Nodes on another machine in your network (software comes with LS8)!

Logic has a steeper learning curve. It's take functionality is new, so perhaps in the next update it might work a little better, so DP still wins there for me. There are a few features with MIDI editing I like more with DP like being able to manage quantization better, MIDI track plug-ins, and some (but not all) of the automation features (like being able to draw in waveforms and NOT have as many conflicts between track and region automation) also are in DPs favor.

For me, knowing and using both has been a benefit since I've gotten work using both. If I was new to pro-sequencing on the Mac and had to chose only one for my own music creation, I'd choose LS8. Besides price, CPU friendliness, and complete arsenal of decent to great plug-ins/softsynths, Logic has a long term advantage by having Apple as its owning company. People have wondered if Logic will be the Pro-tools killer, but I'd venture a guess and say it'll dip much more into DPs market over the next 5 years than Pro-tools. I'm a fan of smaller companies, I like the simpler environment in DP, and I like their audio hardware for the price, so I'm not saying this out of disrespect for them. I just can't think it'll be anything but a huge challenge to continue to compete with Apple's RD $ and their integration with the OS and other applications like Soundtrack Pro, Final cut pro, and Garage Band (for those wanting to improve their GB compositions needing to upgrade to a pro app).

HTH,

Rich

[emulatorloo]

it seems to me that an additional $100 to get ALL the instruments provided in Logic might be a better deal.

That assumes you will like Logic. You may not. A lot of DP users don't.

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I wouldn't look at it as either or though. I have both and like them.

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[sdfalk]

Though I was going to stay out of this one.
For post production tools/sound design/audio editing.
DP hands down

[richard]

Though I was going to stay out of this one.
For post production tools/sound design/audio editing.
DP hands down

Why?

[sjpc0]

[quote="richard"]IMO, DP used to have the best features hands down for scoring for film. LS8 now is close, but I still like some of the tempo mapping features of DP more. One film-scoring feature that used to put DP ahead for me was being able to record off busses so I could create stems for recording sessions and dub mixes. FINALLY, now LS8 has this feature.

Hi Richard
Off the Logic vs DP topic however] I wanted to ask you about
recording busses for stems.
Could you elaborate. I do a lot of stem bounces, they are time consuming and tedious. Is there a quicker way that I'm not aware of in DP?
cheers
AC

[sdfalk]

The tools included to edit audio/automation in DP are for more intuitive
and flexible (at least to me) then anything offered in Logic.
The number of tracks you can group in DP (Im not in front of my home computer right now, and hence no DP) is substantially higher then what's offered in Logic, If you have a track with dialouge, and alot of ambiance in the background AND you've performed a significant number of edits on the dialouge track, there's a facility in DP that auto-fills ambiance in between those edit points with pre-existing ambiance from the dialouge track.
It's virtually automatic, and it also puts in fades whose duration is designated by you.
It's not perfect, but goes along way into speeding up your workday
while working with dialouge.. or other ambiance tracks.
DP's editing reminds me of a slightly more souped up Protools, Logics seems
like it was pasted on as an afterthought by comparison.

[sdfalk]

Let me add, Im just starting to work with Logic as an editor for post work..
(small projects as a test)
Please feel free to point out what makes it so much better in the editing
department..be glad to hear it.

[richard]

Off the Logic vs DP topic however I wanted to ask you about
recording busses for stems.
Could you elaborate. I do a lot of stem bounces, they are time consuming and tedious. Is there a quicker way that I'm not aware of in DP?
cheers
AC

I'm not sure how you're doing it to know if this is different, but you can route all strings to one aux track by sending any string-making tracks to a bus and have the input to the aux track be that bus. Then set all percussion to another and so forth while you're creating your sequence. Then when you're ready to make stems, send the output of the bused tracks to a new bus and have an audio track's input be that bus. You can record multiple stems at the same time this way.

If you're not affecting the original bus/aux channel with effects and/or automation, you don't need to create another bus for the recording stage, you can just set the input to the audio track to be the same input that you're using on your original aux tracks.

A feature added to DP around 5.0 is using audio tracks as aux tracks by having the audio track's input be a bus and then set the Input Monitoring button to 'on'. Then, when you're ready to make stems... just record enable the audio tracks and bam.

Hope this makes sense,

Richard

[richard]

The tools included to edit audio/automation in DP are for more intuitive and flexible (at least to me) then anything offered in Logic.

I like some of both apps. I'm more comfortable editing audio in DP, but I go back and forth about the different automation features...

The number of tracks you can group in DP (Im not in front of my home computer right now, and hence no DP) is substantially higher then what's offered in Logic,

I didn't know there was a track limit within a group in logic... I think you can have only 32 total groups though. Except for drums, I usually go with aux channels before making a group though...

there's a facility in DP that auto-fills ambiance in between those edit points with pre-existing ambiance from the dialouge track.
It's virtually automatic, and it also puts in fades whose duration is designated by you.

It was either user error or perhaps the early implementation of this feature had some (now-fixed) bugs (yes, user error is by far the mostly likely of reasons), I wasn't able to get it to work that well... but it is a cool feature. LS8 now comes with Soundtrack Pro. I've used it just a bit, but I wonder if it has some similar (especially if it's easy to use) feature? I see myself doing more with post in the future, so I best start reading up on it.

It's not perfect, but goes along way into speeding up your workday
while working with dialouge.. or other ambiance tracks.
DP's editing reminds me of a slightly more souped up Protools, Logics seems like it was pasted on as an afterthought by comparison.

I wouldn't go that far, but I do think both tools are pretty cool. I guess as a DAW I'm almost 50/50 with Logic/DP, but the extras you get with Logic (plug-ins, synths, content, apps) and CPU friendliness for $500 makes me lean more towards Logic.

One thing that bugs me about LS8 is that they implemented the consolidated window concept like DP did a while back. BUT Motu had the forsight and courtesy to allow me to immediately turn it off so that I could use my two monitors like I had been... now with LS8, I can open a separate window for say a piano roll editor, but if I double click the region, it only opens in the consolidated view.... drives me nuts. (opt-double click opens it as a seperate window).

[sdfalk]

It was either user error or perhaps the early implementation of this feature had some (now-fixed) bugs (yes, user error is by far the mostly likely of reasons), I wasn't able to get it to work that well... but it is a cool feature. LS8 now comes with Soundtrack Pro. I've used it just a bit, but I wonder if it has some similar (especially if it's easy to use) feature? I see myself doing more with post in the future, so I best start reading up on it

Works great for me

It's not perfect, but goes along way into speeding up your workday
while working with dialouge.. or other ambiance tracks.
DP's editing reminds me of a slightly more souped up Protools, Logics seems like it was pasted on as an afterthought by comparison.

I wouldn't go that far, but I do think both tools are pretty cool. I guess as a DAW I'm almost 50/50 with Logic/DP, but the extras you get with Logic (plug-ins, synths, content, apps) and CPU friendliness for $500 makes me lean more towards Logic.

It's okay.. I would go that far

[sdfalk]

PS

In my experience with both now,
That CPU friendliness gap has narrowed significantly with DP 5.12

Don't get me wrong, I think Logic is swell, but most work I still do in DP.

Last word on it..as it all just starts getting redundant anyway

[duncan]

DP has graphic pitch correction for monophonic audio. I don't think L8 has that. When working with singers, it's a must-have, although I suppose anyone serious about fixing vocals would already have autotune.