My VERY FIRST DP-realted complaint...

[FMiguelez]

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Hello.

Today was one of those bad days. I was very moody. Those who know me know that I'm a HUGE DP fan, and 99.9% of the time I have nothing but praise and good things to say about this awesome DAW. So, please, bear with me in this unusual little rant.

I find it EXTREMELY irritating that every time you need to edit some paramenter in the SE, or the GE windows, you must look all the way up in the monitor to look at those tiny little numbers at the top of the window. Especially if you have big screens, like I do, it becomes so annoying. You loose your place easily, and it's just impractical.
BEFORE someone tells me "you can use the Event List window if you place it close enough" I do know that. But it is just not practical, let alone ideal. You can also screw a light bulb by turning yourself around it instead of doing it with your hand, but it's not practical, right? Same here.
Why MOTU hasn't done something similar to (sorry) PT?? You get the parameter numbers you're editing next to the place you edit them. Right there. Bam!

Also, I don't know if it's because of the particular version I'm using, or if it's because of Waves, but EVERY time I need to tweak a Waves plug-in paramenter, when i click on the number up there on the left of the SE window, instead of showing me VALID numbers according to the paramenter, it'll show me idiotic no-sense numbers. For instance, If i want to edit the gain level on a Q10 band, and click up there in the SE window, I'll get numbers (from 1-500) that have NOTHING to do with eq gain.
I could just drag the control point in the track, but I then need to zoom in vertically in the track by a LOT to have enough resolution, otherwise it's very hard (if not imposible) to place the point right where I want it, IF the resolution is enough. You have to do this while looking all the way up there....

And one other thing... Lately, with Waves plugs, If I double click in a parameter box to change a setting and then hit enter, the change won't register until I STOP playback and start again. Or, sometimes, after hitting enter, I need to click in the box a second time to make it change.
This is all of a sudden. I never had this problem before...

Sorry for the rant. But I really think MOTU should make it easier to tweak the automation in the SE (alla ProTools). Regarding the other issues I mentioned, to be fair, it could be some Waves issue...


Or maybe I was just extremely moody today...

[Frodo]

We all get to the point at some time or another when a typical workflow just interferes with one's thought process suddenly when it really hadn't before.

There's been a bit of talk about why DP doesn't have this or that feature found in another DAW. What dawned on me was the way different DAWs have evolved-- or more accurately, the way users have evolved with their use of these DAWs.... Without overgeneralizing, those who gravitated towards PT had perhaps different needs than those who stayed with Performer/DP.

I'm sure PT's current features weren't all there from version one. Considering who uses PT in the so-called "industry", I'm sure a lot of common sense suggestions for that app had some big motivations that perhaps other apps might not have gotten-- just a hunch, not necessarily a fact.

But, I can easily imagine someone from Lucasfilm calling up Digidesign and saying-- "hey, it would save us a lot of trouble if your app had this feature"-- and then someone in Spielberg's camp did the same-- and then someone in Scorsese's camp did the same, and on and on.

Somehow, I think these guys could be a LOT more influential in breathing certain sense and sensibilities into the ears of developers that we 'Cornies could not.

Can you imagine a developer's response? "I'm sorry, Mr. Spielberg. We can't reproduce your problem. But have you repaired permissons?"

[tripit@earthlink.net]

You are absolutely right. It would be much better if the edit numbers were located right next to where you were editing.

[greeny]

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I find it EXTREMELY irritating that every time you need to edit some paramenter in the SE, or the GE windows, you must look all the way up in the monitor to look at those tiny little numbers at the top of the window. Especially if you have big screens, like I do, it becomes so annoying. You loose your place easily, and it's just impractical.
BEFORE someone tells me "you can use the Event List window if you place it close enough" I do know that. But it is just not practical, let alone ideal. You can also screw a light bulb by turning yourself around it instead of doing it with your hand, but it's not practical, right? Same here.
Why MOTU hasn't done something similar to (sorry) PT?? You get the parameter numbers you're editing next to the place you edit them. Right there. Bam!

.....Or maybe I was just extremely moody today...

Nah, rant away!

That would be really nice, if, when...! I agree: DP can be SO impractical and quite a strain on the eyes.

Doesn't Logic have a similar feature as well? Or was it Cubase? I remember seeing that feature somewhere not so long ago and saying Wow!

Motu could do something similar in the Quickscribe editor as well - click and hold on any note and get a temporary mini-palette to appear "right next" to the note (as if glued to it) showing all the available musical durations (note lengths) - thus making simple edits so much faster than what we have to deal with now, which is... select-click, release, scroll way up the screen, click again!. That could be reduced to just ONE mouse click-hold and release. One movement as opposed to three!

Why is it so hard to implement ? - StudioVision had that feature more than ten years ago.

I like to construct my arrangements from real notes on a stave and not some piano-roll type depiction of notes.
Often when having to deal with many instrumental parts and needing to be able to edit individual notes quickly, zig-zagging through the arrangement, trying out different inversions or counterpoints on the staves, such a popup note-values palette could be a serious advantage. When tonal variations on motifs and themes require some brain-efforts it can become irritating to have to deal with such silly shortcomings within the sequence program itself; yet another hurdle! I often find myself disgusted with DP's impracticalities, rebooting in OS9 and working it all out in StudioVision first because it is still the fastest for me to deal with actual "notes" - and when done, export to DP.

I wish that were not necessary any longer and Motu would deliver us a significant improvement in that department - that might take some time seeing how little importance it carries in DP land - oh well, there is still hope!

[blue]

But, I can easily imagine someone from Lucasfilm calling up Digidesign and saying-- "hey, it would save us a lot of trouble if your app had this feature"-- and then someone in Spielberg's camp did the same-- and then someone in Scorsese's camp did the same, and on and on.

Somehow, I think these guys could be a LOT more influential in breathing certain sense and sensibilities into the ears of developers that we 'Cornies could not.

I've heard stories about this kind of interaction between Hans Zimmer et al. and Cubase. The composers would work on a list of features over the course of a year or so and then deliver it to Steinberg. Apparently, a lot of the things they asked for were incorporated into the app. I remember a version of Cubase coming out some time ago ••“can't remember which version••“ which boasted something like 100+ new features. Wonder how many of them worked.

Apparently Giacchino and Shore aren't nearly as forceful.

[Guitar Gaz]

I hate to keep making a point about Opcode Vision DSP and Studio Vision, but the editing was much easier in this respect - it was clear and in one place - whereas in DP its very small and in the top left corner - but your eyes are naturally drawn to the cursor location in the middle. It confused me for some while. This would be a simple thing to make clearer - DP should make it central or bottom right and much bigger - editing would be improved so much if it was clearer where the note was moving to.

[FMiguelez]

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Yeah. What irritates me the most is that I almost have to literarly STAND UP to see those thinny numbers up there.
This is, IMO, a MAJOR flaw. MOTU can keep that bar there, but also give us the option to see the numbers where they are edited. Work flow could be then so much easier.
There are work arounds for this. I've used them (the mixer strip and the event list), but they are, at best, still work arounds.

This is only ONE of the things I expect MOTU to change in DP 6.

Other than that, is STILL an amazing app.

I really think DP 6 will either, make or destroy MOTU's DP. That will be the chance for them to make up, advance, innovate, excel, excite us, etc. OR, just quite the opposite, and just fall behind the dust.

Lets see...

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Might be nice to have a little pop up next to the cursor with the value when you're editing like that. I don't have the same issues with a couple of lowly 19" flat panels. Often I will select the parameter and just jump to the value at the top of the screen and enter the value I want (assuming i know it).

What might also be a good interface is to do away with the "double click selects all" in the graphic editor and have a double click be programmable so the poop up come activate, or select all could activate, or you could program the click to do what you want. Of course some mouse programs (I use SteerMouse and love it) will let you do some of that, but not on a per window basis, only on a per app basis.

Hope today goes better, FM, and that you find a way around your annoyances. Have you tried kicking the dog? The bite on your foot usually makes everything else seem like small potatoes.

[gearboy]

Question regarding editing that fits with this "I wish MOTU would..." thread.

When automating anything in the Sequence editor, I usually use the fader for volume, or whatever dedicated GUI knob there is in a plug-in etc. Then I go into the appropriate editing layer in the menu (volume, pan, CC#, etc) to fine tune stuff using the dots/line displaying the automation information (I love saying automation information, btw). So my question is... Why doesn't DP display the actual values or this automation layer on a grid on the far left side of the screen? Like, when I automate volume this way (aka fine tune), I would like to see either a grid that shows the value that I am aiming for, or a pop-up bubble that has a display like the send knobs telling me the values that I am changing for any given point on the automation grid that I happen to be moving around. Ya know, controller dependent. Even a scale of 0-127 for each parameter would be great.

This is my main complaint with DP at the moment.

[grimepoch]

Remember this, the people at MOTU might not use DP in the same way you do. That said, please email them about your concern and do not expect that your suggestion will be read here. It's one thing to be frustrated by things that go against a simple work flow, and by all means, I think important to say here so that others can say, at time "Well just do this!" which happens more often than not. But, when you find a lot of people having the same problem, a simple email can do the trick.

I have seen suggestions I have made directly to MOTU show up later in the code. I am sure multiple people probably made the same suggestion.

Just make sure you tell THEM!

(And I agree with you, for me, parameter automation is a COMPLETE PITA most of the time. Volume Bite editing never works right for me. I click a spot and it adds in like 4 points NOWHERE near at the level I clicked! But that's another story) (And yes, I wrote MOTU specifically about it)

[PrimeMover]

Frankly, I hate DPs automatation management. Period. I'm sorry, but coming off of Pro Tools and Sonar, I can't stand how MOTU likes to present automation. I honestly wish that, when in "line" mode, the automation editing would actually ACT like a line, instead of acting like a psuedo-line that's actually hiding points behind it. Sometimes I wish that MOTU would drop automation from the "points" view altogether, and ONLY have lines, and then the program would interpolate the values automatically. The interface is a mess.

MOTUs line view is nothing more than a cheap facade covering over a pretty simplistic and clunky point system. I know it's probably not a popular opinion, but there, I said it.

I feel better now.

[Mr. Quimper]

Frankly, I hate DPs automatation management. Period. I'm sorry, but coming off of Pro Tools and Sonar, I can't stand how MOTU likes to present automation. I honestly wish that, when in "line" mode, the automation editing would actually ACT like a line, instead of acting like a psuedo-line that's actually hiding points behind it. Sometimes I wish that MOTU would drop automation from the "points" view altogether, and ONLY have lines, and then the program would interpolate the values automatically. The interface is a mess.

For that matter, when you're editing automation information on a track, it should only affect automation on the track!!! Deleting a selection of volume automation should return everything to 0 as in PT, not delete your soundbite - if I want to do that, I'll go to soundbites view.

[jstaczek]

You guys better put on your fire-proof underwear before Shooshie gets home and logs on....!

[gearboy]

For that matter, when you're editing automation information on a track, it should only affect automation on the track!!! Deleting a selection of volume automation should return everything to 0 as in PT, not delete your soundbite - if I want to do that, I'll go to soundbites view.

100% agree. How could this be overlooked?!?!?!

[grimepoch]

Haha, that's too funny.