Keyboard literature experts: What is this piece??

[FMiguelez]

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Hello, everyone. This question IS really a loooong shot, but I really want to know...

The other day, I was organizing my ancient VHS tapes, and there was this little fragment of a movie called FINGERS. It starts with a pianist playing an AMAZING barroque piece. I KNOW it is a Fugue. I could almost bet my right arm that it is Bach's (if it is not Bach's, it would be scarry). It is in E minor... that's it. That's all I can tell...

It is NOT part of the WTK. I triple checked. I know Bach's output was stunning, and I'm not sure where else to check.

Where, in his other "collections" of music, would you look for this Fugue?

I have transcribed what I could, but the tape ends before the performance does, and it has got me very bothered.

I want to learn that piece. Any ideas???

P.S. I also find the performance quite nice. The pianist plays it quite fast, and VERY staccato. Basically all the 16th notes are staccato. Great technique. It makes the piece harder to play, and I am not sure as of the "proper" way to play it (it sounds too staccato to me), but it sounds great. I doug out my Wilhelm Kempf performances of Bach's pieces, but he plays them much smoother, not THAT staccato. Thoughts??

Thank you.

[cuttime]

You just threw down the gauntlet to a film music aficionado (geek?). Could this be Bach's Em Toccata (BWV 914) by Glenn Gould? The way you describe the performance just rings a bell. If you can tell the key from a VHS tape traveling at a questionable speed, then I salute you! Is this it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV0TVoUdANY

at about 6:00.

[FMiguelez]

You just threw down the gauntlet to a film music aficionado (geek?). Could this be Bach's Em Toccata (BMV 914) by Glenn Gould? The way you describe the performance just rings a bell. If you can tell the key from a VHS tape traveling at a questionable speed, then I salute you! Is this it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV0TVoUdANY

at about 6:00.

You are a Genious! That's it!

At first, when I started listening to it, it was an obvious "no, this isn't the one". But then I realized that it was the Toccata. At 6:02, the Fugue comes in. Wow! I'm SO learning that Fugue.


GREAT. You made my day. Thank you

Regarding the tape/tonality thing: I just kindda "rounded" it off


I knew if I was going to get an accurate answer, it was comming from a member of UN .

By the way, does that Toccata/Fugue belong to a particular collection? Or is it an "independent" piece?

Also, regarding Gould's performance, what do you think? In terms of music? In terms of interpretation/authenticity?

Again, MUCHAS gracias.

Fernando

[FMiguelez]

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By the way... the only thing is that I'm not 100% sure the movie's and that video are the SAME performance. I don't have access to the VHS now, but though, VERY similar, there are a few parts where I remembered the interpretation a tad different. Could it be?

The video looked terrible, blurry and dark on the tape, but it seemed like a real-time performance to me. Can't tell who the pianist is. Or the actor is a good pianist, or he acts excellent to be a pianist.

What do you think?

[cuttime]

Glad to help! No, I'm not a genius, just an observant guy with way too much trivia stuck in my brain! The key of em is not a key usually associated with JSB's keyboard works, so that was a big clue. Speed and staccato scream "GOULD!" Also, for some reason, film directors like to use Gould's recordings of Bach for reasons known only to themselves. Perhaps Gould's razor sharp technique cuts through movie soundtrack mixes well. "Slaughter-House Five" and "Silence of the Lambs" come to mind right now. I could go on about the brilliant Mr. Gould for pages, but I posted some feelings about him in an earlier OT post a couple of months ago:

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19258

If you have not seen/heard the 1981 "Goldbergs", set aside 47 minutes of your life. I hope this film lives in cyberspace for a thousand years.

The Clavier Toccatas are strange beasts that I have a hard time classifying. I believe that they were written at different times, and are not part of a set, but are probably published in modern editions as a set. I'm sure there are musicologists out there who could shed a lot of light on this subject.

I don't know for sure if the performance in the film is by Gould, but I doubt that it was by Harvey Keitel, unless he is much more talented than I give him credit for!

Good luck learning this piece, and make sure we all have an opportunity to hear it, because I don't think there are a lot of good recordings of this piece out there.

Back to the key of em, and possibly OT, but why does a composer of a tonally centered work choose a key? Aside from instrumental and vocal ranges, I would like to know how to choose a key, and not have to say "I used that key because it was easier to play it that way." The real geniuses out there could share their thoughts about tonality, tuning, and scales.

[FMiguelez]

Back to the key of em, and possibly OT, but why does a composer of a tonally centered work choose a key? Aside from instrumental and vocal ranges, I would like to know how to choose a key, and not have to say "I used that key because it was easier to play it that way." The real geniuses out there could share their thoughts about tonality, tuning, and scales.

Me too. In my case , I have to admit that there are just keys that you like more than others. I LOVE C#minor, for some reason. Also, if I start playing around the piano to get composing ideas, some of them just lend themselves to certain keys. It's always good to avoid going where "your fingers have gone before", especially when you're messing around in the keyboard, otherwise, you end up doing similar things all the time.

I've found it is great to just travel to other keys and just LET yourself be surprised by either, the key, the harmony changes, etc. This is easily achieved when you experiment on less known (by you) keys, keys that might seem uncomfortable. Some of my best melodies or progressions come from this unexpected "accidents" by playing in keys your fingers are not too familiar with.

Also, sometimes the deciding factor will be depending on the instrumentation/orchestration. I never hesitate to even modulate if necessary, as long as the instrument whom I want to carry the melody (or whatever) sings more comfortably (OR unconfortably, if you want a special strained effect).

Some people swear they kind of just "see" colors in certain tonalities, and they'll go to the one that represents their invisioned color more closely.

I would LOVE to hear as well how different people take this desitions.

Oh, and I just want to thank you again for telling me what this piece was. I'm slowly learning it. My piano chops are VERY rusty. This piece is a great technique workout, not to mention amazing music.
This has got to be, by far, my very favorite Bach Fugue.