What NOT To Do?

[Frodo]

The internet is an exciting place-- giving any who'd speak a fair voice in their field of interest.

I won't comment because this bit of advice on orchestration speaks for itself.

It is a direct copy and paste with no modifications whatsoever.

If you can make heads or tails of it, please chime in for the benefit of all.

Thanks!

A good way to learn orchestration is to play a random (anything you like) section of a piece, search it out completely with your ears, and make an arrangement for one instrument (which you play).. record this arrangement, and play it of and listen to it. Once you got that done, try to experiment and start to make arrangements for an orchestra or whatever.

Another good way is to simply make arrangement of score's

[James Steele]

Yeah... I'm confused too. It's almost like he's trying to say something that would apply to homophonic music in a way. Basically he's trying to say "Listen to a piece... essentially learn the melody... record it... then add parts to it." At least that's my best guess. LOL

[blue]

My favorite part of this is••¦

••¦make an arrangement for one instrument (which you play).. record this arrangement, and play it of and listen to it.

So, to recap: Arrange, Record. Then Listen.

[Frodo]

LOL

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I read this.

One part-- hmm-- isn't that in direct contradiction to the entire concept of orchestration?

After the one instrument part has been created-- "try to experiment and start to make arrangements for an orchestra or whatever".

Well Sidney, that explains everything. Who was it that said if you wanted make a sculpture of a horse, just get a big rock and cut away everything that doesn't look like a horse...?

As I said, the internet is wonderful for the way it levels the playing field for everyone who has advice to offer. But this-- sheesh! And this person is a serious orchestrator-- I mean SERIOUS!

[blue]

And this person is a serious orchestrator-- I mean SERIOUS!

Really? Oh, do tell. Please? Pretty please?

[vier-personen]

well.. I read it like this: a person that perhaps is no english native-speaker and was quoted while chatting colloquial tries to tell that analyzing a part of an orchestral score in a way that reduces all voices to the essence of the piece and then to make an own arrangement from this material is a good way to STUDY and understand orchestration.
this actually does make sense for me...

[nickysnd]

well.. I read it like this: a person that perhaps is no english native-speaker and was quoted while chatting colloquial tries to tell that analyzing a part of an orchestral score in a way that reduces all voices to the essence of the piece and then to make an own arrangement from this material is a good way to STUDY and understand orchestration.
this actually does make sense for me...

As a non-native English speaker (or maybe a non-English native-speaker... or is it a native non-English speaker?...), let me understand that correctly:

I want to learn how to orchestrate better. So that's what I do -
I listen to a first part of symphony many many times, until I memorize it.
I take it down on paper, under the quintessential form of a melody.
I orchestrate my melody.
When I'm done, I study my score to in order to learn how to orchestrate better.
I'm getting better and better at it. No need to see any scores other than mine. I'm becoming a self-taught orchestrator.

This actually doesn't make a lot of sense for me, but then again, I am just a non-English speaking native, or a speaking English non-native, or whatever...

[Frodo]

And this person is a serious orchestrator-- I mean SERIOUS!

Really? Oh, do tell. Please? Pretty please?

Blue, this time I really can't.... at least not in advance of a better understanding.

I guess I expected a little more from a professional, is all. Hmm.

[Rick Averill]

My first attempt at orchestration was when I was in junior high school. I just took a couple of tunes and some staff paper and started writing down what I thought would be pretty good. Although I no longer have that chart, I'm sure it was pretty awful. But it didn't hurt anything because nobody ever had to listen to it.

Shortly after that, I picked up a couple of books on orchestration and began the process of honing my skills. I wrote a number of other orchestrations, which nobody ever had to listen to. By the time I got to college and began to study it officially, I was already beyond anybody in my class.

The first orchestration of mine that I actually got to hear was while I was in college. It wasn't for orchestration class; it was a score for a friend in the drama department who was directing a play. I learned a lot of things from that--things that worked and things that definitely didn't. I eventually got to be pretty good (I've read just about every book on the subject I have been able to lay my hands on--everything from Rimsky-Korsakov to Glenn Miller.)

I guess what I'm saying here is that it doesn't hurt to just start writing; you don't need to wait for what someone wrote or what someone says to begin. Any method that you can use to get started has value.

[zaster]

Who was it that said if you wanted make a sculpture of a horse, just get a big rock and cut away everything that doesn't look like a horse...?

I think Michelangelo.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

If you can make heads or tails of it, please chime in for the benefit of all.

Thanks!

It is a bit like saying: to make a guitar, get a piece of wood and start removing anything that doesn't look like a guitar. The start adding elements (like strings, bridges, tuning pins) until it sounds just right. Also, you can start strumming on all the pieces at once until you arrive at an acceptable sound.

[Frodo]

I guess what I'm saying here is that it doesn't hurt to just start writing; you don't need to wait for what someone wrote or what someone says to begin. Any method that you can use to get started has value.

Amen, Rick.

Experimentation is certainly central to the process no matter how experienced one may be. Through experimentation there comes discovery. With discovery, there comes the opportunity to make musical choices as a matter of personal creative taste. No question about it.

It also serves the user well to excercise their instincts as much as it helps to delve into the rules and schools of thought on any topic. Instinct is just as crucial as intellect; the twain in combo make for a power tool.

[Rick Averill]

I really like what Vincent Persichetti (sp?) wrote in his book, "Twentieth Century Harmony." It was the very opening statement in the book. I may be paraphrasing slightly here. "Any note can be sounded together with any other note. Any note may be followed by any other note. The success depends on the skill and soul of the composer."

[npatton]

As funny as the overall concept of the original quote may seem, there is something to be said for experimentation (and, in fact it has been said here already). The humor comes from such a gross oversiplification of what's involved in making a playable, readable, "listenable" score.

I have a student who loves to compose and arrange for BIG ensembles. He got a hold of Finale Sketchpad or something and started at it, using his G3 iMac internal GM sounds to listen to them. He'd e-mail his scores to me, and they were terrible. But we used it as a jumping-off point to start discussing what the various instruments are and are not capable of, with some suggestions as to what COULD play the parts when the instruments he had chosen couldn't.

He's not yet ready for prime time, but he's a lot closer, and I'm actually getting to where I enjoy hearing his pieces now! He's actually farther than I ever got in some respects because he doesn't know he can't do anything, so he's ready to try anything. I get paralized by not knowing the rules, while he doesn't let himself get hamstrung by them. After the initial creativity happens, then we can go back and make things playable by humans. My responsibility is to guide him into acceptible practice without killing his creativity in the process. Interesting balance...

BTW, his grandparents just bought him Finale 2007, so now he's using GPO and loving it! It never occured to me until now to pick up one of these books on orchestration for him. I'll also recommend the GPO site with the Rimsky-Korsakov text to him.

[nickysnd]

I really like what Vincent Persichetti (sp?) wrote in his book, "Twentieth Century Harmony." It was the very opening statement in the book. I may be paraphrasing slightly here. "Any note can be sounded together with any other note. Any note may be followed by any other note. The success depends on the skill and soul of the composer."

I'd say - the success depends on who, and on how many people, will like the sound of that. Yes, everything goes, just throw in whatever notes! - making music is nowadays easy for everyone with a computer. Making successful music depends entirely on the composer skills to meet an audience's expectations.