is final cut studio a true solution?

kelldammit · Post by **kelldammit** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:06 am

i've been looking to go to final cut since i'm doing a bit of video editing and that sort of stuff. each time, it's getting a little more intense, and i'm figuring imovie hd won't stand up to much more...
so the question is, do the other components of fcs really work? for instance, can i take a project with 6 channel aiff audio and actually author an ac3 5.1 surround dvd? i do like the idea of an integrated package that works well together, such as fcs, rather than a mishmash of components.
if fcs isn't a complete editing/authoring solution, i could just go with final cut, and whatever surround encoder comes recommended...
i'm not really looking at avid as an answer, as i'm mostly dealing with bottom-feeder type stuff, but surround and prologic encoding are serious bang for the buck...
any thoughts, experiences?

thanks!

kell

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:25 am

I did a couple of surround projects, and all I needed was DP for the mix, A.Pack (now Compressor) for the conversions, and DVD Studio Pro for the disk build and burn. I'd done the editing on an Avid prior to the surround mix, and used it to create the Quicktime file I synched in DP.

I edit mostly on Avids, but I've done a few projects on FCP and Motion.

But, your question is "does the Apple Suite work," right? AFAICT, with some experience, the answer is yes, but Apple products are as buggy and prone to unexpected exits as anybody else's. A lot of folks are using the Apple suite to get projects done, and the numbers are increasing. (Sound Track Pro is a toy compared to DP, but it is amazing how quick and easy it is to assemble scores with it from loops.)

For Mac people, the Adobe Production Studio (Intel only), expected to ship this Summer, will be a welcome alternative (available now on Windows). Given a choice, I'll go with Adobe, as After Effects is the pivotal application that I cannot live without... even though Adobe is back to Square One with some Mac products (Premiere and their DVD and audio apps). It will likely not be without growing pains, which is why I'm keeping my PPC gear around for a while.

But, if you're looking for a decent integrated toolset at a reasonable price point, the Apple suite is pretty nice, IMO.

stephentayler · Post by **stephentayler** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:45 am

I'm a fan of FCS, have been using FCP, DVDStudio Pro and aPack/Compressor for years now on many different projects, I highly recommend it.

Stephen

Douglas Nagel · Post by **Douglas Nagel** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:51 am

I've been using FCP since version 1. It was off to a shaky start in that version, but since then has grown to a very professional video editing solution, from small to big budget.

sdfalk · Post by **sdfalk** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:53 pm

I use the FCP suite.
Amazing value for the money and very flexible in almost any situation.
Highly recommend it.

kelldammit · Post by **kelldammit** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:02 pm

thanks everyone, for taking the time... it looks like fc studio's the way to go for me!

kell

twistedtom · Post by **twistedtom** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:18 am

FCP is so easy to use and the components work together. I have very few crashes in FCP.
I have done some comps using just FCP; the suit comes with Motion for graphics and comps: Motion is quick and easy to use.
If you are not doing effects and lots of graphics After Effects is not needed but if you are it rocks, it has a bit of a learning curve although. I also use Shake and Commotion Pro.
DVD studio pro gives you Dolby surround with Compressor. You will want to put your sound into 48Kz for Dolby.
Sound tracks pro have a few nice things like easy editing of noise, fast looping and VI••™s: for a add on it is cool you will have fun with it.

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buddhabelly · Post by **buddhabelly** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:34 am

Jim wrote: I edit mostly on Avids, but I've done a few projects on FCP and Motion.

But, your question is "does the Apple Suite work," right? AFAICT, with some experience, the answer is yes, but Apple products are as buggy and prone to unexpected exits as anybody else's. A lot of folks are using the Apple suite to get projects done, and the numbers are increasing. (Sound Track Pro is a toy compared to DP, but it is amazing how quick and easy it is to assemble scores with it from loops.)

Sorry but what a load. STP is not a toy. It is a tool for a different purpose as you alluded to, but can be so much more than a quick bed. Hell, the only other editor I know that does convolution sound readily available is design/mixing/mangling is Peak, followed by metasynth, and Max/MSP and it's tons easier to experiment in STP.

For Mac people, the Adobe Production Studio (Intel only), expected to ship this Summer, will be a welcome alternative (available now on Windows). Given a choice, I'll go with Adobe, as After Effects is the pivotal application that I cannot live without... even though Adobe is back to Square One with some Mac products (Premiere and their DVD and audio apps). It will likely not be without growing pains, which is why I'm keeping my PPC gear around for a while.

But, if you're looking for a decent integrated toolset at a reasonable price point, the Apple suite is pretty nice, IMO.

Sorry, but Adobe pulled out because they were getting their ass kicked as a native editing solution. After efx works just fine in any other work flow, and really has very little to do with Premiere or code anyways. I've done 2k animation in FCP and AFX with no problems. Too bad Adobe won't be bringing Audition (Cool Edit) across, from what I can tell. But again, STP is a very capable application. It's just not DP. It's specifically targeted at post and Foley work especially. Again, Apple apps (including Shake) are also the main front in education, followed by AFX, Combustion for native. Once you get into full Avid or Smoke productions sweets, well that's like comparing PTHD to any native solution.

My 2•. Take em or leave em.

Probably leave 'em.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:05 pm

buddhabelly wrote:My 2•. Take em or leave em. Probably leave 'em.

I won't characterize your opinions as "a load," but perhaps we disagree on the merits of STP.

Audition is going to be part of the Mac Production Suite:

http://www.adobe.com/products/productionstudio/

buddhabelly · Post by **buddhabelly** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:01 pm

Sorry, I was a bit of an ass. Malted beverages and keyboards don't go well. Needed a designated typer.

Anyways, if you look at the PDF on that page on what Adobe is planning on having on the mac, not what is in the current version of the suite, audition is nowhere to be see. Soundbooth, i think they call it, a 2 track editor will be, but no Audition. I do like the new interfaces though, both on AFX 7 and Soundbooth. Reminds me I need to check out the new Apollo alpha.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:47 pm

That's OK. Truth be told, my opinion is a bit of a load on occasion, perhaps even this one. Diversionary tactic.

Did you click the link? It says on that page that Audition is part of the Adobe Production Studio:

"Part of the Adobe Creative Suite family, this complete audio and video post-production solution combines Adobe After Effects® 7.0 Professional, Adobe Premiere® Pro 2.0, Adobe Photoshop® CS2, Adobe Audition® 2.0...."

Anyway, I guess we'll know for sure around June.

buddhabelly · Post by **buddhabelly** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:07 pm

That is what is in the current bundle. Go here and download the PDF press statement. Check out the FAQ on that page to there is a blip about Audition for Mac.

Adobe is making their CS3 announcement next week, but no ship date.

sdfalk · Post by **sdfalk** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:17 pm

I'm certainly not calling anyones opinion a load either, but STP (as a
dedicated 2-track editor) far outstrips anything DP has to offer in that department.
The inclusion of Space Designer, the (reasonable)
declicking, and denoising functions alone makes it a pretty valuable
ummm toy.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:27 pm

buddhabelly wrote:That is what is in the current bundle. Go here and download the PDF press statement. Check out the FAQ on that page to there is a blip about Audition for Mac.

Ahhh... Adobe's definitely got some ambiguity on their site.

As far as what you and sdfalk are saying about the pro features of STP, I'll have to look into them, as I just realized all I have installed on my Powerbook is standard Soundtrack. So, you may be right about my view being a load after all. My new 17" MBP is scheduled to arrive tommorrow, and I do own the Apple suite, so I'll load the entire rigamarole, and give it a spin, including STP.

buddhabelly · Post by **buddhabelly** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:55 pm

sdfalk is right on though as far as a 2 track editor. Great noise removal, good efx, realtime or rendered, convolution/morphing/mixing via clipboard data, spectrum analysis view, Photoshop type layers for editing, including efx.

The multitrack side thought is a bit more similar to the older Soundtrack, but more flexible. It really isn't targeted at a DP user, there is absolutely no MIDI, so no instruments, no traditional scoring. But it has almost everything in good shape for post audio and efx, and soon I'd imagine integration with actual composing DAWs like Logic and DP so that all the post editing/mixing/sync gets done there. With surround sound too. (hear me apple?) That last bit are a couple of feature wishes. Surround, OMF/AAF import etc.

Still, DP is probably going to be a composer's DAW and remain dominant in that arena and as a post tool. The last updates added some nice features for doing posts, streamers, visual metronome, slip/slide/roll edits. Really helps. But still need a shuffle edit mode in DP.

I'm playing with the beta of soundbooth and I foresee a lot of the same 2-track features as STP there, but it's still beta so who knows.