Transient Response

abe_lincoln78 · Post by **abe_lincoln78** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:44 pm

Ok, so you all are going to think I'm crazy, but I'm looking for a way to slow the transient response on guitar tracks. Does anyone know of an Audio Unit that does that exclusively?

You guys may be asking why I would ever want to do that, but its pretty simple. I'm sure one or a few of you have recorded clean guitar and had trouble with compression. The problem is that clean guitar, be it electric or acoustic, can tend to have harsh attack (especially if you finger pick like I do). This harsh attack makes the track virtually impossible to compress. Even at a gain reduction of 6db artifacts are evident. The only exception is with the compressor that comes with digitalfishphones, but it forces a sterio track and I don't feel like I have as much control over it as I wish (auto makeup gain drives me crazy).

I have tried some different approaches including using a limiter with a look ahead time of 3-5ms or running my tube amp at the point of voltage cutoff, but niether has given me satisfactory results.

So, back to transient response. By slowing the rise time on guitar tracks I would be able to reduce the attack peaks and better smooth out the track.

Other than that I feel that slowing transient response on certain tracks will help me achieve that vintage sound and feel I've been looking for without adding distortion.

I'm open to your oppinions.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:00 pm

Top of mind is that the Sonic Modulator plug has an envelope waveform that you could probably use as a source for the Amp section. Just play with the attack time, and maybe that'll give you what you seek.

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:48 pm

Some possible ideas:

Track at a lower volume. Give yourself more headroom. With tracking to digital, you don't need to record hot.

Dial down your volume on your guitar. Most newer pickups are too hot IMO. Gain stage using the amp and, if you like, a compressor pedal (I use a Dynacomp).

Play through a tube amp. I think they naturally smooth out transients better than solid states do.

Compress going in using a FET compressor (like an 1176). They can accommodate most fast transients. The UAD-1 has an AU plugin emulation of this comp that's pretty great.

Eh. Some things to try.

stephentayler · Post by **stephentayler** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:10 am

This unit is great for all kinds of transient manipulating

http://www.spl-usa.com/Transient_Designer/in_short.html

Logic has a similar plugin, Enveloper(?) which sort of does a similar job.

Unfortunately I don't think there are any other plug in solutions, unless anyone else knows otherwise?

I did ask SPL if they would ever develop a plugin version of Transient Designer, and they told me never!!

Stephen

Mr_Clifford · Post by **Mr_Clifford** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:03 am

What you descibe is the perennial problem associated with recording guitars, especially acoustic.

Electric guitar shouldn't be to hard to tame if you've got a good tube amp (you mentioned you have one), maybe revisit the amp and drive it even harder (or softer) or dial down the treble a bit or move the mic.

Acoustic guitar is tough. I've heard some expensive recordings that stuffed it up (Coldplay's "Yellow" is a good example of badly compressed acoustic guitar). Maybe try micing it differently. Omni mics can work better on acoustic than cardiod as it avoids that horrible 'boofy' proximity effect (you might need to use baffles to reduce the room ambience).

Also have a look at your arrangment. Maybe there's something that's making the guitar struggle too hard to be heard, which results in you over-compressing it when you come to mix.

I know I haven't mentioned a single plug-in here, but think outside the box, maybe it's not a plug-in that you need.

resolectric · Post by **resolectric** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:24 am

Digital Fishphones free "Dominion" plugin allows you to model a signal's envelope.
It's available for both Mac and PC and it works for what you need to do.

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:36 am

For monophonic, non-overlapping playing (that'd be lead work-ED), you could try the MW Gate plug-in.
You'd play with the "opening" response for attack control.

Yay! Another plug-style solution.

jrdmcdnld · Post by **jrdmcdnld** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:52 pm

Have you tried parallel compression. I LOVE parallel compression. Without getting into too much detail, you will be leaving the transients mostly the way they are but bringing up the low level material so that those ugly spikes don't stick out so much.

resolectric · Post by **resolectric** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:02 am

jrdmcdnld wrote:Have you tried parallel compression. I LOVE parallel compression. Without getting into too much detail, you will be leaving the transients mostly the way they are but bringing up the low level material so that those ugly spikes don't stick out so much.

Do you use parallel compression on individual tracks?

bkshepard · Post by **bkshepard** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:34 pm

resolectric wrote:Digital Fishphones free "Dominion" plugin allows you to model a signal's envelope.
It's available for both Mac and PC and it works for what you need to do.

I only see a Mac OS9 version of Dominion. Is there an OSX one somewhere?

resolectric · Post by **resolectric** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:26 pm

bkshepard wrote: I only see a Mac OS9 version of Dominion. Is there an OSX one somewhere?

No.

bkshepard · Post by **bkshepard** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:46 pm

resolectric wrote:
bkshepard wrote: I only see a Mac OS9 version of Dominion. Is there an OSX one somewhere?
No.

Bummer!

todd cogan · Post by **todd cogan** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:04 pm

a major bummer, Dominion was an incredible plug in, but the guy from Digital Phish Phones stopped supporting it with OS9. I think he got a job with another software company and didn't have the time to code for OSX.

But I have to second the response about SPL Transient Designer. It's just the right tool for that and many other jobs.

resolectric · Post by **resolectric** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:59 am

todd cogan wrote:a major bummer, Dominion was an incredible plug in, but the guy from Digital Phish Phones stopped supporting it with OS9. I think he got a job with another software company and didn't have the time to code for OSX.
...

True. His plugins are really good. All of them.
They never got the deserved credit because they're free, so, the hype just wasn't there (read: Waves, Algorithmix, Sonalqsis...).
But, they're far more than usable.
And true also that he's working for another company. I read somewhere that he was developing software for Magix.

chamelion · Post by **chamelion** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:11 am

Reading through this thread reminded me of the beautifully recorded acoustic guitar work on the early Seals and Crofts albums. I remember listening with awe, and trying to figure out how it was done. Clean as a whistle, no finger squeaks, as close to perfection as I'd ever heard. Maybe they used a technique along the lines of this discussion. I don't remember hearing acoustic guitar recorded that way before or since. Dang! Everyone squeaks at least a little, don't they?

If anyone has an early Seals and Crofts album I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Even today with all my plugs and experience, I don't think I could produce that crisp, squeakless sound in the studio. If anyone has any inside info about this, I'd be fascinated to hear it.

Cheers,

Geoff

MOTUnation.com

Transient Response

Transient Response

I really miss Dominion

Re: I really miss Dominion