how DP could be better for me.

bongo_x · Post by **bongo_x** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:57 am

maybe this belongs in the dp6 thread but it's not really the same thing.

I've used pro tools for years but am really getting into DP for the last year. I've held off making too many comments until I got more of a feel for it but there are some things that could really make it a much more useful tool for me. most of these things could be easily changed and I have to wonder if no one else is asking for them. hopefully some of these things are just my own lack of knowledge and someone will help me by pointing out the solution I've missed.

here's my list, vaguely in order of importance;

naming undo
-frankly the way it works now is not "pro". the names of tracks and soundbites can be really important and if I accidently click on the wrong one and start typing or paste something there is no way to get the original name back. in pro tools you can undo or just cancel.

indentify beat beat function like PT
-the ability to say "this is bar 1", or 37, or whatever, wherever I put the cursor.

link soundbite selection in sequencer to soundbites list
-pretty clear

link hiding in sequencer to hiding in mixer
-and for that matter selecting tracks and everything else, why do I have to do it twice?

import audio to track
-ala pro tools, very handy time saver, imports audio and makes a track with the same name. importing a dozen soundbites and making new tracks and naming them is painful.

drag multiple soundbites to multiple tracks
-again it's just harder than it needs to be

drag multiple tracks
-again, why can't I select multiple tracks at once and move them instead of one at a time

zoom on the insertion point, not the pre roll
-just plain annoying

rename soundbite should have an option to rename file
-again, renaming a file involves way too many steps. this discourages good housekeeping practices.

tempo markers
-how can I see where the tempo is changing? how about a little marker that says "120"

visual group on-off
-some sort of visual way to tell if tracks are grouped. I use the colors for this in pro tools, most people don't but it would be nice to have some option of a visual cue

no grid zoomed in?
-it seems to stop gridding when I'm zoomed, and not just at the sample level.

all faders to zero?
-I can't figure out how to zero all faders quickly

trim tool doesn't change direction automatically- multi tool does
-that's just odd. why wouldn't it?

selecting sequence when sequence already selected unhides all tracks
-this has got to be a bug. I have a keystroke to switch to the seq window. if I hit it when I'm already in the seq window hidden tracks become unhidden and I have to remember which ones they were and hide them again.

optimize screen real estate for audio
-that control panel is just too big. I feel like I do when I'm using a web browser in windows.

oh, and how about a lean, well-written, close-to-the-metal, optimized code. Please.

thanks for your time.

bb

Mr_Clifford · Post by **Mr_Clifford** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:24 pm

Some good points there. Here's a couple of tips on how you can achieve some of these things in DP as it is at the moment.

>all faders to zero?
>-I can't figure out how to zero all faders quickly

Cntrl-Click on the fader to zero it. I'm guessing that if you turn the 'all' group on then cntrl-click on a fader it will zero them all. Either that or create a new mix.

>trim tool doesn't change direction automatically- multi tool does
>-that's just odd. why wouldn't it?

Hold down the option key to change the direction of the trim tool.

>import audio to track
>-ala pro tools, very handy time saver, imports audio and makes a track >with the same name. importing a dozen soundbites and making new >tracks and naming them is painful.

Drag the audio file from finder to the track list. It will create a new track with the audio file. You can also do this with multiple audio files. - YES the audio import dialog in DP is crap, I never use it.

>indentify beat beat function like PT
>-the ability to say "this is bar 1", or 37, or whatever, wherever I put the >cursor.

Yep, that's a cool function in PT (fingers crossed for future DP versions). You can achieve the same results in DP very quickly by getting familiar with the change tempo, scale tempo & adjust beats functions.

>drag multiple tracks
>-again, why can't I select multiple tracks at once and move them >instead of one at a time

Use cntrl-home/end to move selected tracks up and down. Another really cool function is the 'move tracks to be together' function which is cntrl-option-home (or is it cntrl-shift-home? - sorry DP not on at the moment - it's one of those two) You can find more about these functions in the Commands Window.

blue · Post by **blue** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:53 pm

Mr_Clifford wrote:>all faders to zero?
>-I can't figure out how to zero all faders quickly

Cntrl-Click on the fader to zero it. I'm guessing that if you turn the 'all' group on then cntrl-click on a fader it will zero them all. Either that or create a new mix.

You can hold down the W key to temporarily group all visible (shown) faders before adjusting them. Double clicking one of them while holding down the W key will set them all to unity.

soundsun · Post by **soundsun** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:29 pm

Mr_Clifford wrote:Some good points there. Here's a couple of tips on how you can achieve some of these things in DP as it is at the moment.

Use cntrl-home/end to move selected tracks up and down. Another really cool function is the 'move tracks to be together' function which is cntrl-option-home (or is it cntrl-shift-home? - sorry DP not on at the moment - it's one of those two) You can find more about these functions in the Commands Window.

Hey that's cool! I've never noticed that before. Thanks for that.

--Phil

soundsun · Post by **soundsun** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:33 pm

blue wrote:
Mr_Clifford wrote:>all faders to zero?
>-I can't figure out how to zero all faders quickly

Cntrl-Click on the fader to zero it. I'm guessing that if you turn the 'all' group on then cntrl-click on a fader it will zero them all. Either that or create a new mix.
You can hold down the W key to temporarily group all visible (shown) faders before adjusting them. Double clicking one of them while holding down the W key will set them all to unity.

It doesn't on my copy (4.61). It just moves the one you clicked on to unity and moves all the others, that temporarily grouped, proportionally.

bongo_x · Post by **bongo_x** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:37 pm

blue wrote:You can hold down the W key to temporarily group all visible (shown) faders before adjusting them. Double clicking one of them while holding down the W key will set them all to unity.

when I do it it sets the one I double click to unity and the rest move relative to that.

MR_Clifford wrote:>all faders to zero?
>-I can't figure out how to zero all faders quickly

Cntrl-Click on the fader to zero it. I'm guessing that if you turn the 'all' group on then cntrl-click on a fader it will zero them all. Either that or create a new mix.

I get the same result as above

MR_Clifford wrote:>trim tool doesn't change direction automatically- multi tool does
>-that's just odd. why wouldn't it?

Hold down the option key to change the direction of the trim tool.

yeah, it just seems like it wasn't thought out, the multi tool thing doesn't work like that. not very consistent or intuitive.

MR_Clifford wrote:>import audio to track
>-ala pro tools, very handy time saver, imports audio and makes a track >with the same name. importing a dozen soundbites and making new >tracks and naming them is painful.

Drag the audio file from finder to the track list. It will create a new track with the audio file. You can also do this with multiple audio files. - YES the audio import dialog in DP is crap, I never use it.

thanks, that's exactly what I need. I never use the tracks window so I never paid attention. so the ability is already there, all we need is a dialog box for it. I tried it on the icon in the dock but that opens the editor. too bad. it's a little awkward getting the finder window and DP together especially since I have my systems set for single app so only one app can be visible at a time.

MR_Clifford wrote:>drag multiple tracks
>-again, why can't I select multiple tracks at once and move them >instead of one at a time

Use cntrl-home/end to move selected tracks up and down. Another really cool function is the 'move tracks to be together' function which is cntrl-option-home (or is it cntrl-shift-home? - sorry DP not on at the moment - it's one of those two) You can find more about these functions in the Commands Window.

thanks, that's really cool. the page buttons work too. but still, if I select 3 tracks and drag one of them why wouldn't I want (or expect) them all to move?

thanks for your help
bb

blue · Post by **blue** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:15 pm

soundsun wrote:
blue wrote:
Mr_Clifford wrote:>all faders to zero?
>-I can't figure out how to zero all faders quickly

Cntrl-Click on the fader to zero it. I'm guessing that if you turn the 'all' group on then cntrl-click on a fader it will zero them all. Either that or create a new mix.
You can hold down the W key to temporarily group all visible (shown) faders before adjusting them. Double clicking one of them while holding down the W key will set them all to unity.
It doesn't on my copy (4.61). It just moves the one you clicked on to unity and moves all the others, that temporarily grouped, proportionally.

I'm sorry. I left out a crucial piece of info. If the faders are of different values, you have to sort of "reset" them first before snapping to unity. You can do this by pressing W and then moving a fader all the way down or up until all the faders are of the same value. Then, when you double click they all move the same amount down (or up) to unity. An extra step, but still better than doing them one at a time.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:37 pm

Slightly OT:

May I express my appreciation for you guys who rise to the task of offering VALUABLE advice?

Thanks a thousand times over!!

Mr_Clifford · Post by **Mr_Clifford** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:51 pm

Mr_Clifford wrote:>drag multiple tracks
>-again, why can't I select multiple tracks at once and move them >instead of one at a time

Use cntrl-home/end to move selected tracks up and down. Another really cool function is the 'move tracks to be together' function which is cntrl-option-home (or is it cntrl-shift-home? - sorry DP not on at the moment - it's one of those two) You can find more about these functions in the Commands Window.

Sorry guys, I got these keys a bit wrong. I've just checked on DP and here's the correct key commands (of course these are entirely programmable)

Cntrl + PageUp/PageDown = Moves selected tracks up and down
Cntrl + Home/End = Move selected tracks to Top/Bottom of tracklist (or folder if it's in a track folder)
Cntrl + Option + Home = Moves selected tracks together at the position of the topmost selected track. (this one is really handy!)

Mr_Clifford · Post by **Mr_Clifford** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:04 pm

bongo_x wrote:
MR_Clifford wrote:>trim tool doesn't change direction automatically- multi tool does
>-that's just odd. why wouldn't it?

Hold down the option key to change the direction of the trim tool.
yeah, it just seems like it wasn't thought out, the multi tool thing doesn't work like that. not very consistent or intuitive.

The multi-tool is completely automatic and sometimes annoys the s#!t out of me when it goes from one tool to another just as I click. The number of times I've gone to trim the edge of a soundbite only to move the whole thing!!! When I use Pro Tools I never ever use the 'smart tool' (AKA dumb tool) for that very reason.

I suspect that the trim tool was thought through and they decided not to automate the direction so that the user could always decide whether they want to trim the front or the back of the soundbite (the '/' key and option are nice and close to each other on the keyboard) - it's actually very handy when you want to trim a long way and you can't see the end you want to trim in the editor. Sometimes in Pro Tools it sucks trying to trim a small fade or region when you can't get it to face in the direction you want.

FWIW: I think the soundbite selection in the tracks/sequence window being reflected in the soundbites list request that you made is an essential function and I really hope that MOTU implement it, and soon! They also need to put time-stamps on files exported from the Soundbite list (at least SDII and Broadcast Wave)

Tinoo · Post by **Tinoo** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:45 am

And how come when you select multiple soundbites and drag them in the Tracks Page it layers the files on one track instead of distributing them to the tracks bellow it ? Is there a way to do it that I'm missing ?

bongo_x · Post by **bongo_x** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:57 am

Mr_Clifford wrote:
bongo_x wrote:
MR_Clifford wrote:>trim tool doesn't change direction automatically- multi tool does
>-that's just odd. why wouldn't it?

Hold down the option key to change the direction of the trim tool.
yeah, it just seems like it wasn't thought out, the multi tool thing doesn't work like that. not very consistent or intuitive.

The multi-tool is completely automatic and sometimes annoys the s#!t out of me when it goes from one tool to another just as I click. The number of times I've gone to trim the edge of a soundbite only to move the whole thing!!! When I use Pro Tools I never ever use the 'smart tool' (AKA dumb tool) for that very reason.

I never use the "smart tool" on pro tools either and to this day I'm still annoyed that it's even there and I can't bypass it. I had to rewrite my quickeys and completely stop using "rotate tools" when they added that.

things like that are great for people who are starting out and/or casual use. but there is no way to get really fast editing with a tool like that. you can't be stopping and looking to see what your cursor looks like before you make a move.

that's why I was excited when DP added the trim tool only to be deflated when I realized you had to use a key stroke to change directions. it just makes it a lot quicker and more intuitave to trim the edge your looking at. in PT you hit the modifier key to force it to change directions, no matter which way it faces, so you can use it like you said.

bb

matwell · Post by **matwell** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:46 pm

bongo_x wrote:...I never use the "smart tool" on pro tools either and to this day I'm still annoyed that it's even there and I can't bypass it. I had to rewrite my quickeys and completely stop using "rotate tools" when they added that.

things like that are great for people who are starting out and/or casual use. but there is no way to get really fast editing with a tool like that. you can't be stopping and looking to see what your cursor looks like before you make a move. ...bb

First of all, the Smart Tool *can* be bypassed in Pro Tools. Very easily.

Secondly, I'm a professional composer/engineer who uses Pro Tools *all the time* on feature films, TV shows, etc. and I almost always use the Smart Tool, except for very specific operations. With all due respect, it works great... if you know how to use it.

bongo_x · Post by **bongo_x** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:33 pm

matwell wrote:
bongo_x wrote:...I never use the "smart tool" on pro tools either and to this day I'm still annoyed that it's even there and I can't bypass it. I had to rewrite my quickeys and completely stop using "rotate tools" when they added that.

things like that are great for people who are starting out and/or casual use. but there is no way to get really fast editing with a tool like that. you can't be stopping and looking to see what your cursor looks like before you make a move. ...bb

First of all, the Smart Tool *can* be bypassed in Pro Tools. Very easily.

Secondly, I'm a professional composer/engineer who uses Pro Tools *all the time* on feature films, TV shows, etc. and I almost always use the Smart Tool, except for very specific operations. With all due respect, it works great... if you know how to use it.

sorry, I didn't mean to imply that anyone who uses the smart tool is not a professional. I think it's reasonable to assume though that they added that feature for beginners and casual users. that doesn't stop anyone else from using it of course. digidesign's focus has seemed to be very much on casual users and beginners for a few years now.

with the way I work, very fast editing is not really possible with the smart tool and it is a hinderance.

I would love to know how to turn the smart tool off.

again, no offense was meant by my statements.

bb

matwell · Post by **matwell** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:16 pm

bongo_x wrote:
matwell wrote:
bongo_x wrote:...I never use the "smart tool" on pro tools either and to this day I'm still annoyed that it's even there and I can't bypass it. I had to rewrite my quickeys and completely stop using "rotate tools" when they added that.

things like that are great for people who are starting out and/or casual use. but there is no way to get really fast editing with a tool like that. you can't be stopping and looking to see what your cursor looks like before you make a move. ...bb

First of all, the Smart Tool *can* be bypassed in Pro Tools. Very easily.

Secondly, I'm a professional composer/engineer who uses Pro Tools *all the time* on feature films, TV shows, etc. and I almost always use the Smart Tool, except for very specific operations. With all due respect, it works great... if you know how to use it.
sorry, I didn't mean to imply that anyone who uses the smart tool is not a professional. I think it's reasonable to assume though that they added that feature for beginners and casual users. that doesn't stop anyone else from using it of course. digidesign's focus has seemed to be very much on casual users and beginners for a few years now.

with the way I work, very fast editing is not really possible with the smart tool and it is a hinderance.

I would love to know how to turn the smart tool off.

again, no offense was meant by my statements.

bb

No problem.

You simply select any tool individually to turn off the Smart Tool! I'm surprised that you didn't stumble upon this just in every day use. That tool will stay selected, until you choose another tool. Either with the F5, F6, etc. keys, or by clicking on a tool. You can enable the Smart Tool by pressing F6 & F7, or F7 & F8 simultaneously. Or you can click the small, rectangular box below those tool icons, and it will enable it.

Hope this helps.