Apogee Ensemble Converters compared to Rosetta 800

[csiaudio]

Thought some of you may be interested in the comparison of Apogees' new Ensemble to the Rosetta.

I A/B's the two with the same track using Digital Performer sending the two tracks one to the Ensemble and one to the Rosetta. I used Mutt Langs' mix of his wife's song 'She's Not Just a Pretty Face'.

First the inital sound: The Ensemble's converters are way different than the Rosetta's. The Rosetta is much more balanced, with clear highs and tight lows. The Ensemble's highs were like having a towel over the speaker - the highs were lacking terribly. The lowend wasn't muddy but boomy is a word that works. Because the high end was so off it really effected the imaging and since that is where most of the imaging comes from - that's a problem. The hat in the song was much more harsh than with the Rosetta.

Before I purchased the unit I called Apogee and the rep said that the converters sounded very close to the Rosetta's...and, that with prices coming down on converters they were able to add the other functions (pre's an Instrument in's) while still keeping an affordable price point. Well, that was definitely not true. After I received the unit and before I A/B'd them, I spoke with a rep from Apogee and he basically described the sound of the converters just as I had above - highs lacking and lowend 'bigger' as he described. Wow, big change of description...I wouldn't have waited 5 months before mine finally arrived. Apogee feels that some people will want that lowend boom...hummm, I thought the object in audio was to have accuracy? If I want my audio to be colored I do by say a good mic pre or the like but not my converters that I am mixing with! Call me silly.

On to the Mic Pre's - I have to say I thought they sounded pretty good. I compared my Portico 5012 by Rupert Neve to them and the highs were similar on the Ensemble, siblance was close to the same the lows on the Portico sounded fuller and the Portico seemed to have more 'glue' between the spectrum. Now mind you these were both recorded through the Ensemble's A to D's.

Unfortunately I have not had a chance to test the Instrument in's so sorry I cannot give input there.

Now some thing else that was interesting when I was speaking with Apogee...some companies will have better A/D converters and lesser grade D/A converters - obviously in the hopes of recording better quality sound. Well, the Ensemble's converters, again according to Apogee, the converters are the same in and out! Which means that the same lacking highs and hyped lows will be recorded. Can you imagine that mixing nightmare over an entire song using the boxes inputs - yikes! Break out the EQ and hurry!!!

So, luckily I was able to test this and box it back up and send it back.

A few other minor issues with the box. I couldn't use the lowest sample setting of 64 (for latency) without terrible clicks - 128 was the lowest. I could not use the highest setting either had to use 20xx (can't remember the last two digits) setting. Some times the Ensemble wasn't recognised...sometimes Maestro, the software that comes with it, was unavailable and I had to reboot. The two knobs on the front wiggle too much.


So all in all I was not impressed. I hope this some how helps someone with making a decision if this box is right for you. It has a lot of flexibility to it that is for sure but Apogee cut the most important corner in my mind, the sound!!

[Macinbowl]

Rosetta and Ensemble are not in the same price range though... A/B testing with a Motu or whatever converter on the same price range would be nice too.

I am slowly cooking the idea of upgrading my converters and was seriously considering the Ensemble 'cause it was Apogee converters for 2K$

Now I will have to test some gear! (life is hard! )

Nice test, thanks!!

Mat

[csiaudio]

Rosetta and Ensemble are not in the same price range though... A/B testing with a Motu or whatever converter on the same price range would be nice too.

I am slowly cooking the idea of upgrading my converters and was seriously considering the Ensemble 'cause it was Apogee converters for 2K$

Now I will have to test some gear! (life is hard! )

Nice test, thanks!!

Mat

Mat,

I know the Ensemble offers more but if you're looking for sonic quality for conversion check out the Rosetta 200 - same converters so I know you will be happy. Has the UV22HR which is more flexible to use on the 200 than the 800. I saw a 200 sold on eBay for around $1300 - keep you eye out and maybe you'll find a deal like that (if you have the time)

[Macinbowl]

I totally agree with you that the Rosetta 200 could be the best I can get in this price range but it's only 2 in/out and I'm sure lots of 8 in/out converter out there can do a really good job on this same price range. Sometime, for a lot us, it'a all about "the most for the bucks!!" So that's why the Ensemble seemed a good deal and that's why a comparison with a similar converter would be nice also.

That said, I wasn't asking YOU to do this testing...

Thanks for your suggestions!

Mat

[rick360]

Any thoughts on the Ensemble compared to an RME Fireface 800? They are very similar products. Fireface is probably 400 bucks cheaper though...

[toodamnhip]

Thought some of you may be interested in the comparison of Apogees' new Ensemble to the Rosetta.
The Ensemble's highs were like having a towel over the speaker - the highs were lacking terribly. The lowend wasn't muddy but boomy is a word that works. Because the high end was so off it really effected the imaging and since that is where most of the imaging comes from - that's a problem. The hat in the song was much more harsh than with the Rosetta.


On to the Mic Pre's - I have to say I thought they sounded pretty good. I compared my Portico 5012 by Rupert Neve to them and the highs were similar on the Ensemble, siblance was close to the same the lows on the Portico sounded fuller and the Portico seemed to have more 'glue' between the spectrum. Now mind you these were both recorded through the Ensemble's A to D's.

It does help as I have a post asking about buying the Ensemble...

here's the post, http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 390#118390

perhaps you could chime in? Your info is perfect.

I am amazed at what you wrote and wonder if you could have done anything incorrectly? I doubt you did but something having the effect of a towel over a speaker sounds broken to me...

After you read MY post, I have a question for you..
I have an artist deal on an Avalon available to me. But I have been intrigued by the neve portico. Tell me about it? I want to hear one. Do think it would smoke the Avalon 737 sp? The thing I like about the avalon is it has a built in compressor chain and I don;t want to have to buy a new compressor right now to match the portico. Also, if running the portico or avalon into an 828 mkII, how would you do it? would you go into channel 1 in the back of the 828?

Thanks so much for your time...

david

[kgdrum]

Any thoughts on the Ensemble compared to an RME Fireface 800? They are very similar products. Fireface is probably 400 bucks cheaper though...

i have not heard the Ensemble ,but I can tell you the FF800 is one of my favorite purchases in a very long time it is very very good

[mhschmieder]

Well, I asked my Sweetwater rep about that on Friday, and he gave me a lot of info about the shootouts they'd done and where various pieces of equipment showed better absolute performance than others.

I probably shouldn't get him into potential trouble by quoting him here, but I will just say that I have decided the RME Fireface 800 is the biggest bang-for-buck upgrade, for my purposes, from my MOTU 828 mk II for A/D, D/A, clocking in general, and output op amps for headphone and main outs.

The Apogee Rosetta might be a further step up but I haven't fully investigared that option yet. At any rate, the converters in the Rosetta are considered to be a serious step up from the Ensemble's.

I see a Big Ben as a future long-term purchase, but not imperative right away if I do the RME upgrade (which I think will give me a greater breadth of improvements than Black Lion mods to my 828, as good as those are).

[kgdrum]

all I can tell you ,I upgraded from an old 896 ,what a difference!
better pre's, better converters and the bundled software mixer is incredible............................... this is one of my favorite upgrades I ever have done

[toodamnhip]

all I can tell you ,I upgraded from an old 896 ,what a difference!
better pre's, better converters and the bundled software mixer is incredible............................... this is one of my favorite upgrades I ever have done

upgraded to what?

[kgdrum]

see above tdh - i was refering to rme ff800