Monitors

mal201 · Post by **mal201** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:14 am

Hey Just looking for some advice on picking up a new set of monitors. Figured I'd throw out to you guys since this is the most helpful BBS that I have ever known.

My current set up is a PB G4 1.3, M-audio firewire 410, and a pair of Yamaha msp-5's . I feel like I'm missing an awful lot of low end in my mixes when I take a cd to my car. What sounds great on the monitors always sound real midrangy on other systems.

The speakers that I like that are in my range are

BlueSky MediaDesk system
krk v4
roland ds-8

As you can probably tell by my system, I'm a hobist with system in my living room. It's far from the ideal but it works for me.

I'm leaning to the blue sky because it seems to be designed for the space concious, daw studio.

Let me know what you guys think, and thanks in advance.

kwiz · Post by **kwiz** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:07 am

Before dropping $$ on new monitors you might want to consider setting up your current monitors a different way. Usually when mixes lack low end you're actually hearing more bass frequencies in your "studio" than there actually are. These are called room nodes and are directly related to how your speakers interact parrallel walls.
Check this link for more info.....
http://www.cardas.com/pdf/roomsetup.pdf

Hope this helps and good luck.

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:17 am

There are many choices today as you are aware, but don't let your choice be based on what "sounds good" because studio monitors aren't about what sounds better, but what gives you a more accurate mix. I understand your issues with the MSP5's, they are a 5" woofer that provides very little low-end. I have always found them bright on the top-end, but are they okay for you in that respect? If so, your answer may not be new monitors at all but instead a nice subwoofer. What IS your budget?

mal201 · Post by **mal201** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:38 am

kwiz

Appriciate the help but in my apt setting it up for the ideal speaker setup is rather tricky at best. My desk in in a corner with the kichenette on the right and window to the street on the left.

Brad,

My budget is $300 to $500. I thought about just adding a subwoofer looking at the samson resolv 120. Then a friend suggested the bluesky, since it was a matched set and took up little deskspace and still was a very accurite set. I figured even though it was more money than the sub, I gained a pair of speakers and could either sell the Yamaha's oruse them as a second pair for comparison or just use them for something else.

I definatly noticed the bright high end of the yamahas but I didn't think it bothered me too much. It definatly keeps me from turning up too loud where that but that may or may not be such a bad thing. I don't mix at very different volume levels, but I aslo don't upset my neighbors.

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:32 am

Hmmmm well the danger of a subwoofer in an apartment can be bad, very bad. Here's why. If there is a floor below you and if your sub is a down-fire design, it will push a lot of air at the floor causing a force to then shake the floor which is their ceiling. That will cause a rattle and vibration, they won't like that. Also, they will hear the low-end mud. If it's a front-fire, it's still going to generate excessive energy.

I find the KRK's to be a good value, but they tend to be fairly bright from my experience, I can't say anything about that particular BlueSKy you're looking at. I know this will sound "sales-ish" and I may agree with you on it, but I think these could be a great option for you that will be an improvement in the monitor but also give you a good low-end.... the Tannoy Reveal Actives. These are discontinued but we have a close-out deal on them for $499 for the pair, they are good little monitors!

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RevealActive/

kelldammit · Post by **kelldammit** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:44 pm

it also probably wouldn't hurt to search the boards here for event monitors. some of their stuff is really good, and the prices are pretty sane too...just something else to look into.
i came really close to getting a blue sky system (the larger one), but couldn't audition it, and ended up getting my mackies instead.
doesn't skywalker sound use those (blue sky)?

good luck!

mal201 · Post by **mal201** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:48 pm

First of all let me say thank you to everybody that's chimed in. You've added so many options that I'm even more confused than when I started.

I will definatly look into the reveals and the events, but I'm still kinda intregued byt the blue sky's. I've got to see if they have a dealer around here. I like the concept of a 2.1 system, it just seems to make sense to me. Plus if I ever move out of an apt into a house they would make a great secondary set of speaker to a/b against a traditional set of large 8" woofers.

I know exsessive subwoofering will clearly upset my downstairs neigbors, but can that be avoided but separting the speaker from the floor? I have a down firing sub in my home theatre system and I've put that on a plank of wood to reflect the sound back to my apt and not his. This seems to work as I haven't had any complaints yet. Could I just do something similar here. Most of the subs I'm looking at for the studio are front firing anyway, If Just put them on some kind of rubber mat or feet would that stop the vibrations? Would doing so change the sound dramatically for me?

Thanks again everybody

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:30 pm

mal:

It is not uncommon with a truly reputable dealer that he sit with you using your favorite tracks auditioning monitors in the store. Given that you will pay for a pair of new monitors, you should be able to try them out at home for a day or two, and then try other options. That's the only real way to know what monitor system is going to be user friendliest in your room.

For a small space in an apartment, I'd recommend not only the most accurate, flattest monitors for mixing, but also ones without a "vent". Low end shooting out of the back of the monitors can have you listening to the walls instead of your mixes.

I would also advise that you do a proper callibration on those monitors to ensure the greatest accuracy.

Another bit of advise, if all this hasn't been too overwhelming, is to get some sort of plugin that gives you a visual readout of what's going on in your mixes-- from frequency ranges and stereo imaging balance. One thing you can do with these is to get a visual of a professionally mastered track that is similar to the sound you want to acheive. You can compare that to your own readouts to see, for example, that what may be happening in your mixes is excess activity in the 400-500 hz range, whether you can hear that on your monitors or not.

Something like Spectrafoo, kSpectra, or iSpectrum are examples of such plugins. I'd recommend the cost-effect Inspector XL, except that it has recently succumed to Sith Executive Order #66, if you know what I mean.

One other word of advice: get a good set of headphones. This ensures that you can reference your mix in isolation without listening to how your room listens to your mix. It also works wonders for those late night mixes when the kiddies and neighbors are sleeping.

Now, some may take exception to what I'm about to say, but many studios use the AKG K240s because they ARE extremely flat. I have four sets of these (because I go through them like potato chips). But given that your speakers are not coloring your sound too much, I also have a set of Sony V6 and the V7506 Professional headphones
http://image.bizrate.com/resize?sq=400&uid=6553678

They DO color the sound, but they are well balanced as far as frequencies go. They give me a real world perspective that I can compare to my studio monitors. If the low end lacks punch, it will be very apparent in the headset-- it just won't sound "radio-ready", if you know what I mean. But if I can get a mix to sound great on my monitors as well as in the AKG and Sony headsets, the mix is going to translate pretty darn well elsewhere.

Summary:
1. Good monitors
2. Accurate callibration
3. Source tracks for reference
4. One or two professional headsets for cross-referencing
5. Spectrum analyzer plugin for accurate visual readouts of reference tracks and personal mixes.

All these in combination WILL get you much closer to your goal with greater confidence!

demonsp · Post by **demonsp** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:23 am

Audition the Mackie HR624s.
You have the option of adding a sub later when you move to a house and they translate beautifully to any speaker. (even NS-10s)
I'd recommend Genelecs too but they're pricier.

All the best.

kelldammit · Post by **kelldammit** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:38 am

i love my 624's, and would recommend them, but i figured they were outside the budgetary range....plus, the matched sub (i know you don't have to go that route, but i'm holding out) is pretty pricey...i got my 624's for around $450 a whack (i bought 5).

i'll second the recommendations on the akg 240m's and sony 7506's (which are really great for tracking too). the akg's can sound a little airy and maybe even distant, but they are very comfortable.

the blue sky's ARE intriguing...they held my attention for a long time...it was just hard to find a dealer close by at the time. though, come to think of it, i'm pretty sure i've seen the small desktop system at the local sam ash store...so if you have one close by, maybe you can check them out.

kell

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:09 am

warning.... be careful about deciding on monitors by just listening to them, that's an easy trap because you'll be going by what sounds good. But sounds good and translation do not go hand in hand.

TheHopiWay · Post by **TheHopiWay** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:58 am

Adding a sub woofer won't solve your problem as you described it in your first post.
If you're hearing too little bass in your mixes when you reference them outside your studio then you're already hearing too much low end in your mix environment and adding a sub will most likely increase the disparity.

Auditioning speakers at a store is also a bit tricky as in a smaller room reflections and fold-back color the sound greatly and when you bring them home to your space they're sure to sound different coupled with that reality.

If you have any contacts that would be willing to loan you different speakers or a store that will allow you to exchange within a few days for a different set you'd be able to do some comparison mixes that would help you decide.

Analyzing and treating the room would be a preferable place to start but not practical with your stated budget.

If in your search you find a used pair of passive Tannoy System 800 speakers give them a try and see if you can stretch your budget.

All of this is just imnsho...

Jaysplace101 · Post by **Jaysplace101** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:46 am

BradLyons wrote:warning.... be careful about deciding on monitors by just listening to them, that's an easy trap because you'll be going by what sounds good. But sounds good and translation do not go hand in hand.

Been there.... done that.... lost money.

I'm also a firm believer that your monitor has to match your room. I don't really know how to determine if a monitor does this or not, but all I know is you can spend a crapload on the best sounding monitors from the store (Adams for me) and then take them home and wrestle with them for,.... um..... a year, until you realize they aren't working with your room. For me, I downgraded from the Adams to JBL 6328's and I'm thrilled. My worst mixes EVER were on the Adams. Worse than Mackie or Event. So, it's not always about how much you pay...... that's for sure.

j

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:54 am

Which ADAM's do you have? I have a pair of P33A's which were wonderful until I put in an Argosy desk in my room....didn't match the room philosophy there

So I just bought the new System110 which are the smaller S1A's with the 10" sub and OH MY GOODNESS these things are amazing! If I took the Argosy desk out of my room so I could move farther back and move the speakers closer to me, the P33A's would have been amazing in that space. They were just "too big". This is where I see the LSR4328's working for you because of EQing into the space.

Jaysplace101 · Post by **Jaysplace101** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:49 am

Brad, that is too weird! I had the P33A's and had a big custom desk in my room. I got rid of the desk because I put the speakers further back in the room once and stuck my head behind the desk and wah-lah, the sound was much better. I was kind of reeling at that point though, and out went the P33's as well! So, now I'm sitting here with my little pissy 3x3 table and my JBLs, but at least I'm able to hear! Freaky! I also have the JBL matching sub. So, why do you think the desk doesn't interact well with the P33A's? I don't get it....???

j