DP5 and QT ...Huge issue!

rpmusic · Post by **rpmusic** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:25 pm

Anyone having problems with DP5 and QT? The problem that I'm having is that when opening a QT movie in DP5 (Sorensen 3, mov, mp4 doesn't matter what codec) the video "slips" depending just how quickly I hit the space bar (play) after I've stopped.

Example: I extracted the audio form the QT movie and had it in the time line. I then make sure that the extracted audio syncs with the audio from the QT movie.

Now when I hit play the audio seems to sync fine...BUT if I hit the space bar to stop and then immediately hit it again to play, it's completely out of sync. I figured out that the audio in the QT is always in sync with it self but it is delayed with the audio in the time lime.

This basically renders DP5 totally useless for me as all I do involves scoring to picture. I had a friend of mine in England try this same thing and he experienced that the same problem. When trying to get help from MOTU they couldn't give me any definitive answers so I'm asking anyone else if they are having this same issue.

I love DP5 and am hoping that I can figure out this bug and start using it again! BTW, 4.6 is rocksolid and doesn't have this issue. Any help would be appreciated!

rikp · Post by **rikp** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:53 pm

Rob:

I am having the same problem here. I also use Logic, so have been working in that platform as of late.

It is interesting that I actually ran into your site a couple of days ago. I was looking for an unused domain name and tried rpmusic (my initials are also rp) and low and behold I ran into your site. Bummed that I could not use that domain name, but VERY impressed with your new studio! You must really enjoy going to work each day. I am very impressed with your music too!

I am also after some answers on this problem. If you come up with a solution please let me know. I will do the same.

Peace

rikp

http://www.rpjazz.com

pencilina · Post by **pencilina** » Wed May 17, 2006 9:22 pm

my qt sync was fu*ked when I opened projects I had started in 4.61 into 5. The solution was to file>load the chunks into a new blank dp5 created project and all was cool. Maybe that will solve your prob.

rpmusic · Post by **rpmusic** » Sun May 21, 2006 9:32 pm

No dice!! I opened a brand new DP5 file...nothing in it...opened up a QT movie and have the same problem! Very frustrating!

BTW, thanks for the compliment rikp! And yes, I love the studio.,..it does make coming to the "office: everyday very enjoyable! Looking forward to checking your site and music out as well.

Hope we can figure out this QT thing! I've got a new MacBook coming in on Wednesday, so we'll see if I can duplicate the problem on that!

pencilina · Post by **pencilina** » Sun May 21, 2006 11:06 pm

If you can avoid it, don't use the audio from the QT window (turn the volume slider all the way down) - it is a know bug and is almost always out of sync with the sequence and the movie. Just use the extracted audio. For safety I've been getting my QTs from the client with a beep and punch at the beginning and end - but all has been well. I've been scoring with DP5 with no big problems. Sometimes during a loop or in certain playback instances it messes up but not a big deal. Hope your situation imporves,

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Mon May 22, 2006 6:46 am

rpmusic wrote:Anyone having problems with DP5 and QT?

Working fine here in three fairly large projects (full orch scores) with QT movies.

Are you running the current QT and OS versions? (OS X.46; QT 7.1.0) Also, have you deleted the soundtrack from the QT movie? Once you import the audio, it might help to delete that track if DP isn't doing so. Otherwise, it might be overloading your processor. You need QT Pro to delete the track from the QT movie. The file won't get any smaller until you export to a new QT movie - but that is not necessary to delete the track and save the file. DP won't see the deleted track. It is in there somewhere, but I don't see how to resurect it, so you might want to "save as" and reference the original data to save a bit of HD space.

HOWEVER, DP 5 seems to drop the end frame of a movie IF bounce to disk and duplicate video is selected in DP's bounce settings. IE- if the QT movie ends but the music trails a bit, you should be able to hold the last frame OR fill with black. DP will fill w/blk if checked, but if that is NOT checked, then DP 5 fills with white and no more visuals from QT appear.

The fix (QT Pro required again) is to bounce to disk, but REFERENCE the movie. The resulting QT file burns to DVD just fine and the frame at the end is preserved (again, assuming the music goes on a bit longer).

cmm · Post by **cmm** » Mon May 22, 2006 8:16 am

pencilina wrote:If you can avoid it, don't use the audio from the QT window (turn the volume slider all the way down) - it is a know bug and is almost always out of sync with the sequence and the movie. Just use the extracted audio. ,

pencilina, were you able to replicate the behaviour?

I was able to replicate the delay, as described, pretty quickly. Rob's concern was whether or not the qt video was staying sync'd to the extracted audio or to it's own audio (meaning there would a visual delay as well as an audio delay).

Your point re the bug may be the clue to answer that question, as that would mean it is only the qt audio that is late. I remember there were issues with qt audio if not extracted, but I would have assumed the problem would be present regardless of how quickly the stop/start happened. According to Rob's initial post, audio is in sync to start with, but drifts if stop and re-start happens quickly.

Andrew

pencilina · Post by **pencilina** » Mon May 22, 2006 2:54 pm

cmm wrote:
pencilina wrote:If you can avoid it, don't use the audio from the QT window (turn the volume slider all the way down) - it is a know bug and is almost always out of sync with the sequence and the movie. Just use the extracted audio. ,
pencilina, were you able to replicate the behaviour?

4 sure, If I turn up the volume in my QT movie window it will almost always be out of sync with everything

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Mon May 22, 2006 3:49 pm

pencilina wrote:If I turn up the volume in my QT movie window it will almost always be out of sync with everything

that is a bug from at least DP 4.61. Importing the track to DP should allow proper playback as an audio track. Bit of a PITA, but at least there is a fix.

edledbury · Post by **edledbury** » Mon May 22, 2006 8:33 pm

I have the same issues and worse. Pencilina's load chunk fix was a partial remedy for sequences started in 4.61. Nothing helps material originated in 5.0. To make matters worse, I have some cues where the QT slows down and speeds up. It's beyond bizarre! I opted to switch to 5.0 on account of its much touted film scoring tools, but so far it's been a terrible disappointment. I don't know if anyone here has tried the visual streamers and punches, but on every mac we have here they slow the QT to a crawl. Also, if you try and render a a self contained clip with the streamers and punches burnt in, the clip exhibits the same behaviour as the real time effort - ie. slow and jerky. And while I'm venting - DP 5.0 crashes almost every time I open a different file. We've reinstalled the program twice, and trashed every preference under the sun to no avail. Overall, I wish Motu had spent more time getting a solid version of DP ready for Intel macs and less on soft synths which sound awful and production 'enhancements' which don't work.
Sorry for the rant - it's been a long day!

rpmusic · Post by **rpmusic** » Thu May 25, 2006 6:54 am

edledbury

THANK YOU! YOU GET IT! I think a lot of what I was trying to explain was misunderstood. This whole QT "speeding up and slowing down" IS the issue.
Once you extract the audio and make sure that the two separate audios "line up", the QT video/audio will "slip and slide" depending on how quickly you "start and stop".

I have spoken to MOTU about this, but they seem to not have a clue. I'm glad (I guess) that I'm not the only one experiencing this problem!

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Thu May 25, 2006 7:39 am

edledbury wrote:I don't know if anyone here has tried the visual streamers and punches, but on every mac we have here they slow the QT to a crawl.

Have used them quite a bit already. They are a little cryptic to engage, but once you get the hang of implementing them, they work fine (for me at least). No effect on QT playback. Also not problem with QT at all. But i ALWAYS importmy audio from the QT files and control it from DP. It may also help to delete the audio from the QT file. If you don;t have QT Pro, you can do this by importorting themovie to DP and bounce to disk as a new movie (make sure all aduio tracks are muted) and then use the new movie for DP. Save a bunch of time by referencing the original data (IE- do not duplicate video elements). This may give you better response in DP when using a QT movie. I use it for every project with three large orch projects running currently, and it is always spot on.

groove · Post by **groove** » Thu May 25, 2006 8:30 am

First Quicktime Pro is an absolute must.
Second OSX 10.4.6 AND Quicktime 7.1. QT 7.0 had numerous sync problems that has been resolved in 7.1 (The FinalCut people will tell you)
DP sync problems were no exception.
For instance DP "Bounce to Quicktime" that I used extensively for approval with QT 6 was a complete disaster with QT 7.0 ; the audio portion of the movie was fine but the image was totally out of sync and useless. MOTU was aware of this but the culprit was on Apple's side. Since QT 6 was incompatible with Tiger we were f**ked with a problematic QT 7.0 We had to rely on the editing features of QTPro to intregrate the audio mix to the movie. Time consuming.

In QT 7.1 all that has been resolved and DP movie playback and BTQT is now working as it should be. In my setup I have no sync issues at all (Canopus ADVC100), QT mov in DV format.

To reduce cpu demand form the mov there is no need to delete the audio from it once it as been imported in DP. Go to Quicktime Pro open the mov and then choose "Show movie properties" or command-J.
Deselect the audio track from the list and save your movie again. If you choose you can also "save as" a new movie but all you "gain" is extra disk use. You can reverse your selection at any time by reopening your movie in QTPro an enabling the audio track.

Next time you open your DP project, the audio of your mov will not play back - the little speaker won't be there- thus reducing a bit the cpu demand.

Hope that helps a bit.

Don T · Post by **Don T** » Thu May 25, 2006 9:31 am

Hello,
I have had this problem starting with Dp3.11. The QT audio was never reliable. What will really screw you up is having different sample rates. The QT audio will play but has to convert the audio in real time. I like using 48k for everything cuz traditionally iDVD had problems rendering with 44.1k. I extract the audio from the Qt movie (into the sequence) and make my new audio sample accurate to that track. I reassemble the audio to the video in either iMovie or Final cut. It ends up synced perfectly that way.

matwell · Post by **matwell** » Thu May 25, 2006 11:01 am

From MOTU:

http://www.motu.com/techsupport/technot ... =quicktime

I have also pasted the text here.

Quicktime movie audio playback is not in sync with the movie when the movie is played in DP Apple's QuickTime 7 release handles audio differently than previous versions. The result is that when you play a QuickTime movie in DP, the movie's audio falls out of sync with the movie. Previous versions of QuickTime did not exhibit this behavior in DP. This QuickTime 7 compatibility issue will be addressed in a future release of DP. In the meantime, there is a fairly simple work-around: choose Movie window mini-menu > Copy movie audio to sequence. This extracts the audio track from the movie and places in a DP disk track. Now mute the movie's audio and instead play the disk track. It will play perfectly in time with the movie (and the rest of the project).

If you are running Mac OS X 10.3.x (Panther) instead of 10.4.x (Tiger), there is alternate workaround: go back to QuickTime 6. There are installers available from the Apple web site that will remove QuickTime 7 and replace it with QuickTime 6. Visit apple.com for further information.

Everytime I've compared the live audio from a QT movie, versus the extracted audio, they are always out of sync. Depending on where you start in the sequence, the drift varies. Maddening!

Hope this helps.

MOTUnation.com

DP5 and QT ...Huge issue!

DP5 and QT ...Huge issue!

Re: DP5 and QT ...Huge issue!