DP5.0 Audio POPS with Virtual Instruments!!

[Brianbagz]

Layout:
NEW G5 - Dual 2.0
2.0 Gig RAM
also fast internal drive for projects.(forgot the name)
DP5.0
2-2408MK3



Ok here's my current nitmare. I am getting Audio Pops I am using Storm Drum for some tracks and it appears that when I go into the Eq's or any other plug ins on another channel for any other sounds all the sudden S.D. starts to pop. very annoying stuff. CPU performance seems normal nothing crazy no spikes. but it just seems to get worse as a I work down the track. I mean I know it can't be the computer itself as far as speed and resources. It has to be a fine thing. I dropped the Buffer size recently to compensate for the delay I had with the V.I. so that all works fine. I even dropped down from doing my tracks in 24Bit 48Khz just to see if that was the issue but the rendered the same results. so WTF is goign on here. Another situation concerning the EQ is after I change the parameters and close the window ont he EQ all the sudden that track will get real loud like it wasnt EQ'D at all and then go into the state that I jsut set it for the eq.ANNOYING! Starting to get a lil upset with this release of 5.0 Especially after I recorded some of my Virtual instruents in a MONO channel then came to it the next day and all my patches were gone. Then find a write up on the D.P board about that issue..(GREAT BOARD BY THE WAYS PEOPLE...VERY VERY USEFUL STUFF GETS WRITTEN HERE) But boy was I pissed ...Even called MOTU and they weren't aware o the problem..Dont know how true that is but in any event...IS there a fix on the way for that one as well...

OK I'M DONE HERE...lol....
Ok guys any info an that Audio POp situation I have would be greatly appreciated....Take care everyone
Brian

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Layout:
NEW G5 - Dual 2.0
2.0 Gig RAM
also fast internal drive for projects.(forgot the name)
DP5.0
2-2408MK3



Ok here's my current nitmare. I am getting Audio Pops I am using Storm Drum for some tracks and it appears that when I go into the Eq's or any other plug ins on another channel for any other sounds all the sudden S.D. starts to pop. very annoying stuff. CPU performance seems normal nothing crazy no spikes. but it just seems to get worse as a I work down the track. I mean I know it can't be the computer itself as far as speed and resources. It has to be a fine thing. I dropped the Buffer size recently to compensate for the delay I had with the V.I. so that all works fine. I even dropped down from doing my tracks in 24Bit 48Khz just to see if that was the issue but the rendered the same results. so WTF is goign on here. Another situation concerning the EQ is after I change the parameters and close the window ont he EQ all the sudden that track will get real loud like it wasnt EQ'D at all and then go into the state that I jsut set it for the eq.ANNOYING! Starting to get a lil upset with this release of 5.0 Especially after I recorded some of my Virtual instruents in a MONO channel then came to it the next day and all my patches were gone. Then find a write up on the D.P board about that issue..(GREAT BOARD BY THE WAYS PEOPLE...VERY VERY USEFUL STUFF GETS WRITTEN HERE) But boy was I pissed ...Even called MOTU and they weren't aware o the problem..Dont know how true that is but in any event...IS there a fix on the way for that one as well...

OK I'M DONE HERE...lol....
Ok guys any info an that Audio POp situation I have would be greatly appreciated....Take care everyone
Brian

Well MOTU IS aware of the problem and it has been reported here before as well. Pops and crackles in audio for me appear to be related to a FireWire "incompatibility" issue. I do not have time to test this and it is only intermittent on my system - so "hoping it will happen" while testing is not a reliable way to debug it. But if it is constant on your system and you care to test it, you can route the output to the internal audio and see if the pops go away. If not, then it is in the VI (I would guess) or the MAS system itself.

Should you do this test, please post the results here. Good luck.

[David Polich]

This sounds like a possible problem with Storm Drum, not DP5. You may want to try getting ahold of tech support at EastWest. Does the problem occur with any other VI - try loading one of DP5's own VI's and see if the problem persists, or if you have any other VI's try loading those as well. You need to rule out Storm Drum as the cause.

[Brianbagz]

I was thinking it might be with SD myself..I am going to contact them tomorrow and see...That would suck....Really really good sounds in SD just gonna have to figure a work around..Also I have other VI's going and they seem to be fine.

[Frodo]

...I dropped the Buffer size recently to compensate for the delay I had with the V.I. so that all works fine. I even dropped down from doing my tracks in 24Bit 48Khz just to see if that was the issue but the rendered the same results. so WTF is goign on here.

What is your buffer size? Do the pops occur at the higher buffer setting? If not, leave the buffer setting on the higher rate (512 or 1024) and use CueMix for low-to-no latency tracking.

Also, lose the iSight component which has been known to interfere with audio. Drag it into another folder (like Documents) temporarily-- if you'll need it later-- or just trash it altogether.

[chrispick]

Ok here's my current nitmare. I am getting Audio Pops I am using Storm Drum for some tracks and it appears that when I go into the Eq's or any other plug ins on another channel for any other sounds all the sudden S.D. starts to pop. very annoying stuff. CPU performance seems normal nothing crazy no spikes. but it just seems to get worse as a I work down the track. I mean I know it can't be the computer itself as far as speed and resources. It has to be a fine thing. I dropped the Buffer size recently to compensate for the delay I had with the V.I. so that all works fine. I even dropped down from doing my tracks in 24Bit 48Khz just to see if that was the issue but the rendered the same results. so WTF is goign on here.

DP5 now has a prerendering function for audio plugin effects. If you open an effect that's reprendering while transport is running, you'll here a pop or break in the audio.

Are you sure this isn't what's occurring?

If so, it can be alleviated by: a.) setting the plugin so it doesn't prerender or b.) stopping transport to open the plugin window, they playing transport while you tweak the plug's parameters.

Also, StormDrum will start to glitch during playback if you're close to topping out RAM use with it. Have you tried to take out a sample or two to see if SD is getting too RAM-full to be efficient?

[dweiss]

What is your buffer size? Do the pops occur at the higher buffer setting? If not, leave the buffer setting on the higher rate (512 or 1024) and use CueMix for low-to-no latency tracking.
.

Frodo,
Is this really true? Where have I been? I've got 2408's with a 424 card and I monitor with a mixing console. My audio tracking latency issues went away for ever when I upgraded to the 424 but I've never been able to figure out how to reduce latency when recording VI's, other than by reducing the bufffer size.

Could you give me specific instructions on how to make that work?

Thanks!

[Brianbagz]

Thanks guys for all your responses.. I will try all of your suggestions when I go home tonight after I get out of work...
Thanks again!
Bagz

[paradeatw]

More scary tales from the 5.0 side

Anyone know when MOTU is releasing update? lol... I wanna jum up but 4.6 is still where its at for me...

[Brianbagz]

THE HITS JUST KEEP ON COMING!..
just gotta work em out I guess

[Frodo]

What is your buffer size? Do the pops occur at the higher buffer setting? If not, leave the buffer setting on the higher rate (512 or 1024) and use CueMix for low-to-no latency tracking.
.

Frodo,
Is this really true? Where have I been? I've got 2408's with a 424 card and I monitor with a mixing console. My audio tracking latency issues went away for ever when I upgraded to the 424 but I've never been able to figure out how to reduce latency when recording VI's, other than by reducing the bufffer size.

Could you give me specific instructions on how to make that work?

Thanks!

Sorry about the delay in responding. I couldn't log on for a couple of days due to php errors, which are happily fixed.

Anyway, people have done this when routing audio from a second Mac into a single 2408, and it does work on a single Mac if done carefully to avoid audio signal looping... It is slightly twiddly, but we do need a VI solution...

In Hardware Setup, SHIFT-CLICK both PCI-424 and Built-In audio as drivers. (Indeed, you can use both drivers at once).

Connect the output (audio cable) from your Mac to an input or input pair on the 2408.

Set your VI instance (the one you want to record with) with an output to bus 1-2 (or whatever bus config works best for you.

Create and AUX track and set its input to bus 1-2, or whatever bus that corresponds with your VI's outs.

That should do it. CueMix should already see all else going in DP on the "OUT" pair (on the far lower right). Be sure to unmute the CueMix channel which corresponds to your AUX channel's output assignment.

The one thing in the 424 manual which may be woefully out of date is that part that says From the Basics menu, choose MOTU Audio System options > Input Monitoring Mode. That's on page 108. Whatever you do, ignore this. You'll never find the BASICS menu in DP since OSX.

Instead, go to Setup > Configure Audio System > Input Monitoring Mode and make sure to select Direct Hardware Playthrough.

Hope that helps...

[macsrock]

i tell you something,, im still getting clicks , pops etc when usimg all my vi,s .especially synthogy ivory. but i am using only one hard drive, im hoping that getting an extra harddrive will stop this problem. it clicks when i drop buffer to 512 and when i use 1024.
its a real bastard of aproblem for me. so if you have any other ideas i would realy realy!!1 apreciate them
thanx guys

paul

[supersonic]

Hi macsrock,

What's your exact setup? When you say you use one drive do you mean you just use the internal drive for the system, DP and the Ivory?

[Frodo]

Ivory presents some special concerns by having its own settings. Finding a balance with lower voice counts and raising HD priority, or perhaps using a patch with fewer layers will help.

Also, when tracking you may want to turn off Ivory's ambience settings and save those for later. If you want a little reverb, use a functional one with lower CPU requirements on an aux for tracking.

Streamline your other plugins by removing any unnecessary samples or deactivating any unneeded processing during tracking. It takes a bit of tweaking between DP's settings and Ivory's to get a config that works best for you, but freezing tracks or setting up a chunk with a working SDII submix will allow you to track with just one plugin loaded, and in turn allowing you to lower DP's buffer settings.

Also, before you track with Ivory, always play a note or two first. These notes will suffer from serious latency delays, but subsequent notes will benefit from auto delay comp.

The truth is that DAW's and VI's are just not there yet. Each company addes features users want, but "this orchestra" and "that piano" with "this drum kit" and "that guitar library" in combo can easily overwhelm the fastest Macs out there. Things fare far better during mixdown, but tracking VI's is still a bit of a PITA at times.