Hung MIDI Notes - The loop theory! READ THIS MOTU!!!

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:05 pm

In an effort to try and track down stuck MIDI notes (and working on the theory that they might be caused by MIDI loops mentioned in an earlier thread) I disabled all MIDI outs of my keyboards and modules and used only the (non-sound generating) M-Audio conrtoller for input.

Module #1 (Proteus 2) hung first. Then keyboard #1 (PC2r w/Orch) also hung as did module #2 WSSR. Since the MIDI outs of those devices were disabled in Audio-MIDI setup, it would seem a MIDI loop is not to blame unless it is somehow getting past the OS (which I doubt.) So I am of a mind now that it is not a MIDI loop problem, but may indeed be DP specific and only MOTU can fix it. It never happens in Finale (the only other MIDI program I use) and i am playing the exact same orchestration to the exact same modules in that program.

So MOTU, if you are watching these threads, PLEASE make this bug a priority! Aside from being annoying, it renders DP unusable for live MIDI applications.

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:01 pm

I dunno - I can use DP with my Motif ES triggering MIDI and it works just fine.

I think the MIDI Voodoo Demons have somehow decided to visit your system. It's not out of the question that it's "the ghost in the machine".
I've experienced system specific or hardware specific problems that were unique to one particular system owned and used by one person, and could not be troubleshot succesfully by anyone.

If it was specific to DP everyone would be experiencing it, but they're not.
Not to say I don't feel for your misfortune, that's a big drag for you.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:09 pm

David Polich wrote:I dunno - I can use DP with my Motif ES triggering MIDI and it works just fine.

I think the MIDI Voodoo Demons have somehow decided to visit your system. It's not out of the question that it's "the ghost in the machine".
I've experienced system specific or hardware specific problems that were unique to one particular system owned and used by one person, and could not be troubleshot succesfully by anyone.

If it was specific to DP everyone would be experiencing it, but they're not.
Not to say I don't feel for your misfortune, that's a big drag for you.

Really more of an inconvenience. I migrated from a G4 1.4 gHz machine to this dual 2.0 G5 last fall and the exact same thing on both machines. New OS install (factory installed by Apple, BTW) so the chances of it being my system is possible, but a little odd. And i can go for months w/o a problem. Go re-configure!

I do use a long USB cable (12' plus an extension) and have suspected that as a culprit, but haven't debugged that yet. Oh well. Hopefully it will get solved someday. Thanks for the response.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:12 pm

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:In an effort to try and track down stuck MIDI notes (and working on the theory that they might be caused by MIDI loops mentioned in an earlier thread) I disabled all MIDI outs of my keyboards and modules and used only the (non-sound generating) M-Audio conrtoller for input.

Module #1 (Proteus 2) hung first. Then keyboard #1 (PC2r w/Orch) also hung as did module #2 WSSR. Since the MIDI outs of those devices were disabled in Audio-MIDI setup, it would seem a MIDI loop is not to blame unless it is somehow getting past the OS (which I doubt.) So I am of a mind now that it is not a MIDI loop problem, but may indeed be DP specific and only MOTU can fix it. It never happens in Finale (the only other MIDI program I use) and i am playing the exact same orchestration to the exact same modules in that program.

So MOTU, if you are watching these threads, PLEASE make this bug a priority! Aside from being annoying, it renders DP unusable for live MIDI applications.

Does COMMAND-1 stop the notes? If so, that would tend to make me doubt that it's a cable problem, but of course you never know. This is so strange. Very sorry you're experiencing it.

I stacked up all the new MOTU VIs last night, and put multiple instances of each on a piece I've been working on, just to play around. There are probably 25-28 MIDI tracks, so that's a lot of instances of mono-timbral synths. There are a lot of notes in the tracks, as well. I found that it overloaded everything pretty quickly, leaving a stuck note on just about every module, and I had to send out a COMMAND-1 to stop it. After the initial overload, though, I didn't get any more stuck notes.

I've thought a lot about what you guys are going through, and I still haven't come up with anything, but I'm tending to suspect something in the USB department. This never happened to me--not even once--when we were using serial interfaces. Do you have a 3rd party USB card, by chance?

Shooshie

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:37 pm

Shooshie wrote:[Does COMMAND-1 stop the notes?

Sometimes, yes. Sometimes sone modules. Sometimes, nothing from the command. I am also covinced it is a USB issue. Some routing comand is not getting thru.

BTW, hung notes ONLY happen when the transport is paused or stopped. NEVER during regular playback. But once they hang; they're hung. If you playback the offending notes to send a note off, that will stop the note, but as soon as you playback again, they hang again.

Could be worse, but I would like to see it go away. Sort of like having a stuck damper on a piano. THAT I can fix

Thanks for the insight. now where is DP Dan when I need him?

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:34 pm

By chance, could you be using USB Overdrive? It's a USB port remapper/automator sort of thing. I have used it only once, very briefly, and it caused absolute havoc on my system, so I removed it, labeled it (in my archives) with a skull & crossbones icon, and have stayed away from it ever since.

Shooshie

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:40 pm

Shooshie wrote:By chance, could you be using USB Overdrive? It's a USB port remapper/automator sort of thing. I have used it only once, very briefly, and it caused absolute havoc on my system, so I removed it, labeled it (in my archives) with a skull & crossbones icon, and have stayed away from it ever since.

Shooshie

I am... hmmm. I'd hate to loose it because the logitech control panal for my MX1000 is lame as hell. But it is worth a try. Of course, you must remember that sometimes they kill the messenger!

dweiss · Post by **dweiss** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:42 pm

On the motu-mac list a few people have concluded that recording to the metronome set to audio click causes stuck notes until a record pass is made without it. I don't know if it's true but it might be useful info.

shuvel · Post by **shuvel** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:38 am

Does turning off audio, ie selecting "MIDI-only" prevent stuck notes? Just wondering because it fixes my problem of not being able to fast forward MIDI.

croyal · Post by **croyal** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:41 am

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:In an effort to try and track down stuck MIDI notes (and working on the theory that they might be caused by MIDI loops mentioned in an earlier thread) I disabled all MIDI outs of my keyboards and modules and used only the (non-sound generating) M-Audio conrtoller for input.

Is it possible the controller / interface has some issues with MOTU apps? I personally have only used MOTU stuff (OS 6 - 10.4.x) and have never had stuck notes- except during a hard crash when MIDI was playing. Finale (which has MANY more MIDI issues than DP) may be also be more tolerant of your interface. I know everything "should" work but we all know that only what has been tested by the software designer is actually reliable.

Do you have access to another interface (MOTU) for comparison? I do sympathize with your trouble, but since we all don't experience the trouble, it may be symptomatic of your OS and hardware system interaction.

If your hardware checks out, might I suggest a reinstall of your OS followed by a reinstall of DP?

Chris

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:00 pm

MIDI Life Crisis, could you once again list your system configuration, including all audio and MIDI interfaces?

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:06 pm

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
Shooshie wrote:By chance, could you be using USB Overdrive? It's a USB port remapper/automator sort of thing. I have used it only once, very briefly, and it caused absolute havoc on my system, so I removed it, labeled it (in my archives) with a skull & crossbones icon, and have stayed away from it ever since.

Shooshie
I am... hmmm. I'd hate to loose it because the logitech control panal for my MX1000 is lame as hell. But it is worth a try. Of course, you must remember that sometimes they kill the messenger!

I've got a feeling about this. If you can back up your settings and make it easy to reinstall, you should give this a try. I'm quite serious about my experience with USB Overdrive. I know some people use it all the time, but it caused craziness on my system. Keyboard and mouse were typing and moving on their own, MIDI Time Piece was playing cascades of notes, it was a nightmare. Granted, it was also a long time ago. I think it may have been a beta version for OS X. My feeling at the time was that even if they fixed this dog, it's never going to hunt. This may be your problem. If not... sorry I caused you the trouble. But if this fixes your problem, well, you can pay me in small, unmarked bills dropped off at a location to be determined.

Shooshie

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:30 pm

Something to look at for sure. When I can, I will. Thanks.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:33 pm

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:36 pm

Well, if you could borrow or rent a different FW device and a different MIDI interface...

It's hard to say without swapping out those two pieces, unfortunately, because it could actually be either one.

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Hung MIDI Notes - The loop theory! READ THIS MOTU!!!

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